Israel's Attack on Gaza - OzChess

**Simon** · 01-03-2009, 05:18 PM

Understanding the dynamics of this latest conflict is a complex issue. I have very little sympathy for either side.

Among the big ticket issues I have noticed:

(a) There are motivations for the attacks.

If there were no attacks on Israel, Israel wouldn't be going to war. By contrast, if there were absolutely no attacks on Palestinians, they would be killing civilians as a matter of policy.

The fundamental reason that many people support Israel is because they are not an unprovoked aggressor with no grievances.

(b) There is a general problem of a void in leadership having the authority to stop attacks on Israel. Therefore Israel continues to retaliate.

(c) Stopping the retaliating would't do anything.

The people who want Israel destroyed aren't going to change their minds even if Israel never shoots and fires at anyone ever again. A complete cessation of violence by the Israelis would probably result in a massive escalation of violence against them.

Again, this provides a strong reason for people to support Israel in their actions.

(d) Many of the other neighboring countries could do something about this if they wanted to.

There is the issue of not enough land for the Palestinians. Well, I believe there are much larger countries in the area that could take them in and give them land. But many don't want to because they see the Palestinians as a way to undermine Israel.

If Israel's neighbours hadn't tried to wipe them out I don't think we would have a problem we do today. The issue isn't that Israel is at fault, but rather that circumstances beyond their control now necessitate their attacks.

What exactly does anyone you propose they do? Not defend themselves? Then they would all die because people want to kill them, and not necessarily because of anything they have done. Make peace deals? With whom? There's no functional Palestinian authority they can negotiate with.

I do not think there is any resolution to this long standing conflict short of Israel moving or the Palestinian populace developing a functioning government which is willing to stop supporting terrorists.

**Simon** · 01-03-2009, 05:24 PM

Thoughts on the above are welcome btw

**Just2Good** · 01-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Thoughts on the above are welcome btw

I think your pro Israel views are a bit biased Simon. The truth is that the so called terrorist attacks are few and far between. They do not justify state sanctioned killing of women, children, and innocent civilians. Nothing does. Sorry I couldn't agree.

Best Regards,

AO

**Rex** · 01-06-2009, 06:39 PM

Come on AO, the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in. They do not like it when the Israeli do it back to them.
Hamas will kill all the Jews if they could while the Jews only wish to live in peace.
They gave back a lot of land after the 6 day war. The Egyptians and Jordanians kept the peace while The Syrians, Lebanonese and Palestinians have not kept their word or the Peace.

**Caligulette** · 01-06-2009, 07:21 PM

I am just happy that we have a free and open press which brings us the news about what is happening there so that we can make up our own minds regarding who is right and who is wrong.

**Just2Good** · 01-06-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rex

... the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in.

I didn't know that. If that is true then its deplorable.

**Uki** · 01-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel.

**Simon** · 01-06-2009, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Uki

Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel.

Thats right, so they have no right to complain now! Well said Rex

**Dulce** · 01-14-2009, 04:22 PM

Israel has also taken the same action against settlers they ordered to evacuate Palestinian lands so they are pretty consistent.

Palestinians on the other hand have a long history of provoking Israel. No other country on Earth would have put up with as much as they had. It's only through Israels remarkable restraint that the Palestinians have any land outside of Jordan and Egypt at all.

**antichrist** · 02-12-2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Uki

Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel.

Killing a total of about 13 Israelis. That see Israel as their land stolen from them so logically think that they are allowed to bomb their own land.

**antichrist** · 02-12-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dulce

Israel has also taken the same action against settlers they ordered to evacuate Palestinian lands so they are pretty consistent.

Palestinians on the other hand have a long history of provoking Israel. No other country on Earth would have put up with as much as they had. It's only through Israels remarkable restraint that the Palestinians have any land outside of Jordan and Egypt at all.

Israel have only emptied a handful of settlers out of occupied lands. Only when they had no choice as in Gaza coz Israel realised it was hopeless trying to control it any longer - too expensive as well. Various Israeli governments over decades have financially supported the growth of these settlements and wooed their votes.

There are still hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers not including the millions of immoral settlers in Israel itself.

So over all the Israeli position of 60 years is one of snaatch, grab and rob.

Concerning the second para:
Of course Palestinians have a long history of provoking ever since the land comprising Israel was stolen from them in 1948 - they should be commend for such opposition.

Ancient Israelites or whatever originally stole the land about 3,000 years ago, it is even in their "holy book" how God made the sun stand still so they could finish the massacre and genocide of the Canaanites. The ancient Israelites were obviously not the original people as they had to invade the place, supposedly on God's orders - a strange sort of God who condones genocide and robbery.

Wake up Israel supporters - you are supporting state terrorism

**Jaz** · 02-12-2009, 02:13 PM

13 dead israelis versus thousands of palestinians dead, injured, homeless, etc etc is a really fair price to pay - rock on israel and all of its supporters, kill-kill-kill

Originally Posted by Rex

Come on AO, the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in. They do not like it when the Israeli do it back to them.
Hamas will kill all the Jews if they could while the Jews only wish to live in peace.
They gave back a lot of land after the 6 day war. The Egyptians and Jordanians kept the peace while The Syrians, Lebanonese and Palestinians have not kept their word or the Peace.

I absolutely agree with you and your fellow brainwashed people, killing innocent women a children solves just about everything. I was there when I saw little children mixing ammunition for rocket launchers and I saw their mothers launching the rockets. I was there, just like you were. I'm absolutely unbiased by the propaganda by the western media just like you are so we know very well what we are talking about. I totally agree with you, its all about getting back at "them" - the innocent palestinian people who had nothing to do with the rockets that couldn't even blow a hole in the road. Only by killing innocent civilians a peace can be achieved. God I love Israel so much, let the genocide never end

**Just2Good** · 02-13-2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jaz

13 dead israelis versus thousands of palestinians dead, injured, homeless, etc etc is a really fair price to pay - rock on israel and all of its supporters, kill-kill-kill

I absolutely agree with you and your fellow brainwashed people, killing innocent women a children solves just about everything. I was there when I saw little children mixing ammunition for rocket launchers and I saw their mothers launching the rockets. I was there, just like you were. I'm absolutely unbiased by the propaganda by the western media just like you are so we know very well what we are talking about. I totally agree with you, its all about getting back at "them" - the innocent palestinian people who had nothing to do with the rockets that couldn't even blow a hole in the road. Only by killing innocent civilians a peace can be achieved. God I love Israel so much, let the genocide never end

So do you support the Israeli's, the Palestinians, or both?

**Jaz** · 02-13-2009, 03:09 PM

I support peace.

I believe people can live together in harmony with the nature without killing each other and polluting its environment. I believe in love and I believe in free will. I believe people have the right to decide for themselves and live their lives as they best see fit without affecting the free will of others.

"make love, not war"

**antichrist** · 02-13-2009, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jaz

I support peace.

I believe people can live together in harmony with the nature without killing each other and polluting its environment. I believe in love and I believe in free will. I believe people have the right to decide for themselves and live their lives as they best see fit without affecting the free will of others.

"make love, not war"

but if the UN and colonial forces gave your land to someone else and your people were attacked and driven in refugee camps and blown to smithereens whenever you tried to get it back, would you still have airy fairy delusions of peace and harmony????

01-03-2009, 05:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Israel's Attack on Gaza Understanding the dynamics of this latest conflict is a complex issue. I have very little sympathy for either side. Among the big ticket issues I have noticed: (a) There are motivations for the attacks. If there were no attacks on Israel, Israel wouldn't be going to war. By contrast, if there were absolutely no attacks on Palestinians, they would be killing civilians as a matter of policy. The fundamental reason that many people support Israel is because they are not an unprovoked aggressor with no grievances. (b) There is a general problem of a void in leadership having the authority to stop attacks on Israel. Therefore Israel continues to retaliate. (c) Stopping the retaliating would't do anything. The people who want Israel destroyed aren't going to change their minds even if Israel never shoots and fires at anyone ever again. A complete cessation of violence by the Israelis would probably result in a massive escalation of violence against them. Again, this provides a strong reason for people to support Israel in their actions. (d) Many of the other neighboring countries could do something about this if they wanted to. There is the issue of not enough land for the Palestinians. Well, I believe there are much larger countries in the area that could take them in and give them land. But many don't want to because they see the Palestinians as a way to undermine Israel. If Israel's neighbours hadn't tried to wipe them out I don't think we would have a problem we do today. The issue isn't that Israel is at fault, but rather that circumstances beyond their control now necessitate their attacks. What exactly does anyone you propose they do? Not defend themselves? Then they would all die because people want to kill them, and not necessarily because of anything they have done. Make peace deals? With whom? There's no functional Palestinian authority they can negotiate with. I do not think there is any resolution to this long standing conflict short of Israel moving or the Palestinian populace developing a functioning government which is willing to stop supporting terrorists.

01-03-2009, 07:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Simon Thoughts on the above are welcome btw I think your pro Israel views are a bit biased Simon. The truth is that the so called terrorist attacks are few and far between. They do not justify state sanctioned killing of women, children, and innocent civilians. Nothing does. Sorry I couldn't agree. Best Regards, AO __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-06-2009, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rex Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 73	Now come on AO Come on AO, the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in. They do not like it when the Israeli do it back to them. Hamas will kill all the Jews if they could while the Jews only wish to live in peace. They gave back a lot of land after the 6 day war. The Egyptians and Jordanians kept the peace while The Syrians, Lebanonese and Palestinians have not kept their word or the Peace.

01-06-2009, 07:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Rex ... the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in. I didn't know that. If that is true then its deplorable. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-06-2009, 08:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
Uki Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 32	How many rockets would you like fired at you? Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel.

01-03-2009, 05:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Thoughts on the above are welcome btw

01-06-2009, 07:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
Caligulette Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 26	I am just happy that we have a free and open press which brings us the news about what is happening there so that we can make up our own minds regarding who is right and who is wrong.

01-06-2009, 08:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Originally Posted by Uki Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel. Thats right, so they have no right to complain now! Well said Rex

01-14-2009, 04:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	Israel has also taken the same action against settlers they ordered to evacuate Palestinian lands so they are pretty consistent. Palestinians on the other hand have a long history of provoking Israel. No other country on Earth would have put up with as much as they had. It's only through Israels remarkable restraint that the Palestinians have any land outside of Jordan and Egypt at all.

02-12-2009, 01:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Uki Palestinians have fired 8,000 rockets over 8 years into Israel. Killing a total of about 13 Israelis. That see Israel as their land stolen from them so logically think that they are allowed to bomb their own land.

02-12-2009, 01:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Dulce Israel has also taken the same action against settlers they ordered to evacuate Palestinian lands so they are pretty consistent. Palestinians on the other hand have a long history of provoking Israel. No other country on Earth would have put up with as much as they had. It's only through Israels remarkable restraint that the Palestinians have any land outside of Jordan and Egypt at all. Israel have only emptied a handful of settlers out of occupied lands. Only when they had no choice as in Gaza coz Israel realised it was hopeless trying to control it any longer - too expensive as well. Various Israeli governments over decades have financially supported the growth of these settlements and wooed their votes. There are still hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers not including the millions of immoral settlers in Israel itself. So over all the Israeli position of 60 years is one of snaatch, grab and rob. Concerning the second para: Of course Palestinians have a long history of provoking ever since the land comprising Israel was stolen from them in 1948 - they should be commend for such opposition. Ancient Israelites or whatever originally stole the land about 3,000 years ago, it is even in their "holy book" how God made the sun stand still so they could finish the massacre and genocide of the Canaanites. The ancient Israelites were obviously not the original people as they had to invade the place, supposedly on God's orders - a strange sort of God who condones genocide and robbery. Wake up Israel supporters - you are supporting state terrorism

02-12-2009, 02:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jaz Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 87	13 dead israelis versus thousands of palestinians dead, injured, homeless, etc etc is a really fair price to pay - rock on israel and all of its supporters, kill-kill-kill Originally Posted by Rex Come on AO, the Palestinians fired the first rockets aiming at Israeli homes with women and children in. They do not like it when the Israeli do it back to them. Hamas will kill all the Jews if they could while the Jews only wish to live in peace. They gave back a lot of land after the 6 day war. The Egyptians and Jordanians kept the peace while The Syrians, Lebanonese and Palestinians have not kept their word or the Peace. I absolutely agree with you and your fellow brainwashed people, killing innocent women a children solves just about everything. I was there when I saw little children mixing ammunition for rocket launchers and I saw their mothers launching the rockets. I was there, just like you were. I'm absolutely unbiased by the propaganda by the western media just like you are so we know very well what we are talking about. I totally agree with you, its all about getting back at "them" - the innocent palestinian people who had nothing to do with the rockets that couldn't even blow a hole in the road. Only by killing innocent civilians a peace can be achieved. God I love Israel so much, let the genocide never end

02-13-2009, 01:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Jaz 13 dead israelis versus thousands of palestinians dead, injured, homeless, etc etc is a really fair price to pay - rock on israel and all of its supporters, kill-kill-kill I absolutely agree with you and your fellow brainwashed people, killing innocent women a children solves just about everything. I was there when I saw little children mixing ammunition for rocket launchers and I saw their mothers launching the rockets. I was there, just like you were. I'm absolutely unbiased by the propaganda by the western media just like you are so we know very well what we are talking about. I totally agree with you, its all about getting back at "them" - the innocent palestinian people who had nothing to do with the rockets that couldn't even blow a hole in the road. Only by killing innocent civilians a peace can be achieved. God I love Israel so much, let the genocide never end So do you support the Israeli's, the Palestinians, or both? __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

02-13-2009, 03:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Jaz Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 87	I support peace. I believe people can live together in harmony with the nature without killing each other and polluting its environment. I believe in love and I believe in free will. I believe people have the right to decide for themselves and live their lives as they best see fit without affecting the free will of others. "make love, not war"

02-13-2009, 08:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Jaz I support peace. I believe people can live together in harmony with the nature without killing each other and polluting its environment. I believe in love and I believe in free will. I believe people have the right to decide for themselves and live their lives as they best see fit without affecting the free will of others. "make love, not war" but if the UN and colonial forces gave your land to someone else and your people were attacked and driven in refugee camps and blown to smithereens whenever you tried to get it back, would you still have airy fairy delusions of peace and harmony????

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.ozchess.com.au/non-chess-related-discussion/918-israels-attack-gaza.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
OzChess - Australia's Chess Forum	This thread	Refback	02-19-2009 11:47 PM

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: