Homosexual Experience - OzChess

**Fischer-Fan** · 02-01-2008, 10:50 PM

ok, the other day i am on the bus when who sits right in front of me but two kids about 20. no worries so far, but then i notice they are holdings hands. the instant i see it my stomach begins to turn then the two ******* start kissing - oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god, this is right in front of the seat in front of me!!!!!!!!!!! anyway i am totally disgusted by this and one of them is wearing an earing, and the get off before i do and are still holding their hands and i am still horrified because i just witnessed the most revolting thing i have ever seen. its strange in a way that this is my instinctual reaction because i alway thought of myself as a tolerant person who didn't care about shit like this but then it confronts you and all of a sudden your values or what you thought were your values are tested. anyway i originally come from port hedland and i can tell you we don't have a gay community there and if we do they certainly don't reveal it so blatently as kissing and holding hands on a bus. anyway i was kind of fucked up about what i saw and i talked to my girlfriend about it and she said that i needed to learn to be more of a 21st century man and that there was nothing wrong with what they did or are, and i know in my head that this is true but all i can say is that i couldn't help how i felt when i saw them kissing right in front of me and that i was disgusted by it and never want to see that sort of thing again. is there something wrong with me, am i allowed toi have these feelings. i guess i have to adjust to this kind of stuff now that i am living in a big city.

**WhiteElephant** · 02-01-2008, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

then the two faggots start kissing - oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god,

Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war? What kind of rock have you been living under? I am fairly immune to idiotic posts on forums but seriously that post really pisses me off.

Let me ask you a question, would it have bothered you if it was 2 girls kissing?

**MichaelBaron** · 02-01-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

i was disgusted by it and never want to see that sort of thing again. is there something wrong with me, am i allowed toi have these feelings. i guess i have to adjust to this kind of stuff now that i am living in a big city.

Just because you do not want to see it, does not mean they are not entitled to express their feelings publicly...

**Just2Good** · 02-01-2008, 11:26 PM

Dear Fischer-Fan

Yours views on homosexuality seem to be outdated. There was a time when I too found the practice, well, unpalatable. But time changes one's perspectives. Your girlfriend is right, the year 2008 is no place for an attitude of hostility towards homosexuals or lesbians. I do, however, understand you come from a small town and are now living in a big city. Indeed, changing your view and becoming accepting will take time but I think your mind will open eventually and you may even one day find yourself with a homosexual boyfriend and think to yourself, 'why did I ever find being gay revolting'?. For the record I have never had this, do not want this and do not seek this, but we are talking about you and not me.

Best wishes on your journey through life and overcoming these pre-conceived views which restrict you. Unlike WE and Michael Baron I am not going to dump on you for expressing your views. I just think you need time and exposure to these new concepts and lifestyle choices. You will surely be a better person after you have had such.

AO

**WhiteElephant** · 02-01-2008, 11:35 PM

AO, my problem is not so much with Fischer-Fan's view but the way he expresses it. I object to him using the extremely derogatory word *******, calling homosexuality revolting etc.

**Iconoclast** · 02-02-2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war?

No fear of that

OzChess has a good record of civility.

Now, W/E, The Baron, AO: You need to stop being so politically correct. FF is fully within the normal range. I support him in expressing HIS FEELINGS. I concur with his assertion that what he witnessed was very disconcerting. I will add MY FEELINGS to this thread too.

There are times and places for everything. Some are culturally derived and some are instinctual. Examples of this are that, humans in all societies like to crap in private, nesting/burrow animals crap elsewhere. Copulation occurs mostly in estrus. Fornicating in front of your grandmother is more than a faux pas.

The homosexuals going the pash in the middle of a bus right in front of someone is simply plain bad manners. The same applies to heterosexuals. We all should endeavour to refrain from unnecessarily offending people regardless of our liberty to do so. The pair in this case are doubly guilty because that are no doubt aware that their sexuality is particularly offensive - rightly or wrongly - to a large proportion of the public.

As for my reaction to sexuality, it is simple. If I particularly don't like the idea of engaging in a specific sexual act, I call it revolting. If I do like it, I call it sexy. Who the hell has the right to tell me what I should or should not find revolting or sexy.

**Iconoclast** · 02-02-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

I object to him ... calling homosexuality revolting etc.

Frankly I don't care what sexuality any person has - it is their business and they can love it as much as they like. However, homosexuality IS revolting for heterosexuals. If it was not, they would be in-the-closet bisexuals.

W/E, do you know how homosexuals feel about having sex with the opposite sex? Revolted. They can say that and I don't care because that is their feeling about it. FF and I should be able to say the same about the idea of engaging in homosexual acts, without having the though police taking us in for questioning.

**MichaelBaron** · 02-02-2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

The pair in this case are doubly guilty because that are no doubt aware that their sexuality is particularly offensive - rightly or wrongly - to a large proportion of the public.

I agree....ppl kissing on a bus is immature (regardless of one's sexuality) However, it was no more offensive than 20 yo boy kissing his 18yo gf...We do find such public expressions of feeling a bit annoying at times..but come on - they are still kids.

What really upsets me about Iconoplast's post is the concept of "it was wrong because it was not percived well by the public". In this case, we got a problem with public rather than with that two love-birds. People should learn to overcome ignorance and zero tolerance and accept the fact that everyone is different as well as the fact that everyone is equal in the rights to express their feelings.

If you go to Amsterdam or Paris or London or...you name it! Same sex couples walk around holding hands....and nobody seems to get upset about it. Getting upset about someone's sexuality is no different from getting "upset" about one's religion, nationality or race.
Some years ago, I was really surprised that Pauline Hanson recieved so many votes in QLD in rural areas...and now i am no longer surprised.

**Fischer-Fan** · 02-02-2008, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Indeed, changing your view and becoming accepting will take time but I think your mind will open eventually and you may even one day find yourself with a homosexual boyfriend and think to yourself, 'why did I ever find being gay revolting'?.

this is never going to happen. i like my girlfriend and having sex with her only and someday i hope to marry her and have kids. homosexuals don't have kids you know unless they adopt them from heterosexuals.

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war? What kind of rock have you been living under? I am fairly immune to idiotic posts on forums but seriously that post really pisses me off.

Let me ask you a question, would it have bothered you if it was 2 girls kissing?

i am for real. if some idiot sits down in front of you and starts farting which disrupts your peaceful enkoyment of the bus, do you have no right to say anything or complain? for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me.

Originally Posted by MichaelBaron

Just because you do not want to see it, does not mean they are not entitled to express their feelings publicly...

once again i use the fart analogy. just because it may be permissible to do something does not mean that it should be done!

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

AO, my problem is not so much with Fischer-Fan's view but the way he expresses it. I object to him using the extremely derogatory word faggots, calling homosexuality revolting etc.

ao changed that word without my permission which i am not happy about this. it was my post and i am entitled to have my opinion.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

No fear of that OzChess has a good record of civility.

civility is fine but i don't like my posts being editted though!

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Now, W/E, The Baron, AO: You need to stop being so politically correct. FF is fully within the normal range. I support him in expressing HIS FEELINGS. I concur with his assertion that what he witnessed was very disconcerting. I will add MY FEELINGS to this thread too.

thank you. maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland.

**WhiteElephant** · 02-02-2008, 12:43 PM

Thank you for your posts, Iconoclast. I guess I reacted the way I did to Fischer Fan's posts for several reasons:

1) I do not see anything out of the ordinary when I see gay people publicly displaying affection. I have gay friends and have had gay flatmates, go to rave parties where there are gay guys kissing everywhere, etc.

I personally don't feel comfortable displaying affection in public. If other people want to hold hands that is fine with me, I agree that kissing can get too much when it is in your face from either straight or gay people.

2) As I mentioned, I did not like the way in which Fischer Fan expressed himself, it was derogatory and showed an intolerance of gay people.

3) I have seen plenty of occasions when someone expressing such intolerance (calling gay people faggots to their face) has caused much hurt to those being put down in this way.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

homosexuality IS revolting for heterosexuals. If it was not, they would be in-the-closet bisexuals.

W/E, do you know how homosexuals feel about having sex with the opposite sex? Revolted. They can say that and I don't care because that is their feeling about it. FF and I should be able to say the same about the idea of engaging in homosexual acts, without having the though police taking us in for questioning.

What does the word revolting mean?

It means more than just a turn off. A quick look at dictionary.com and we get repulsive, abhorrent, filled with disgust, etc. Basically it is something pretty horrible.

I don't find homosexuality revolting. Does that mean I am in-the-closet bisexual? lol

I think that someone's initial response to something they don't understand can be one of disgust, but surely as a tolerant human being they would try to understand what they are seeing and then they could no longer feel that way? Iconoclast, why do you assume that all heteros find homosexuality abhorrent? I believe that many do not. Just as I believe (from countless conversations with gay people) that alll gay people do not necessarily find sex with the opposite sex abhorrent. If you prefer one thing, then it does not necessarily follow that you must dislike its opposite.

**WhiteElephant** · 02-02-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me.

Why is that? Aren't they also homosexuals?

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland.

LOL...did I say everyone wants to be a 'homo'? Your use of the word 'homo' is offensive by they way. But clearly you don't mind being offensive to 'them'.

I will reiterate, I have no problem with you not wanting to see homosexuality displayed in public. That is fair enough. I do have a problem with you labeling someone good or bad, and using derogatory language, when you don't understand them.

**Iconoclast** · 02-02-2008, 08:16 PM

AO, I am not of the opinion that we should edit out the word "faggot" or any other word. I would much prefer - as has been done in the past - to politely ask the poster to reconsider the word/reference/phrase/term. It has worked in the past to keep the standard high and we should, I believe, continue with that policy. If we need to discuss further, we can start another thread.

**Iconoclast** · 02-02-2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelBaron

What really upsets me about Iconoplast's post is the concept of "it was wrong because it was not percived well by the public".

Sorry, but I must not have made my point clear. I am saying that in general, if the general public find an act in public offensive, then it is only good manners not to do it. I make/made no comment about the rightness/wrongness of engaging in a homosexual act.

People should learn to overcome ignorance and zero tolerance and accept the fact that everyone is different ...

Overcome ignorance? Agreed.
Zero tolerance? For what? I have zero tolerance for child rapists. But hey, they are "different." Zero tolerance is a good weapon to have in your arsonal, to use sparingly, at the right time. I will make more comment on "tolerance" later below.

Getting upset about someone's sexuality is no different from getting "upset" about one's religion, nationality or race.

About nationality, agreeded.
About race, agreeded.
About religion, NOT agreeded.

The first to are accidents of birth. Religion is a conscious decision to be idiotic. You should reply to this on one of the religion threads.

**MichaelBaron** · 02-02-2008, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

this is never going to happen. i like my girlfriend and having sex with her only and someday i hope to marry her and have kids. homosexuals don't have kids you know unless they adopt them from heterosexuals.

i am for real. if some idiot sits down in front of you and starts farting which disrupts your peaceful enkoyment of the bus, do you have no right to say anything or complain? for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me.

once again i use the fart analogy. just because it may be permissible to do something does not mean that it should be done!

ao changed that word without my permission which i am not happy about this. it was my post and i am entitled to have my opinion.

civility is fine but i don't like my posts being editted though!

thank you. maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland.

1)It is your choice to love your girlfriend only ..and to have kids with her...If same sex couples are not able to have kids...how does it add value to your argument?

2) No need to tell elephant or anyone else that "not everbody wants to be a homo". Homosexuality is not a choice! People are born this way! So when it comes to rights, I see no difference in how rights of people should depend on their sexuality etc. If you think that homosexuality is a choice it is not your fault, but the fault of your high school teachers/parents who failed to educate you well. Today, the nature of human sexuality is common knowledge that every adult should know about.

3) How can you compare a couple kissing to farting? Would you like same sex couples to make similar comparisons about you and your gf?

4) Regarding "its my post and I am entitled to my opinion". You are certainly entitled to have an opinion but a) your language was not appropriate (if a homosexual person (and some chess players are homosexual) was reading your posting, he surely got insulted.

5) You are probably still a very young person who is yet to learn a lot of things about the world we are living in (e.g. that homosexuality is a choice) and by the time you complete your uni studies as well as graduate from the "school of life" you will understand how wrong you were. In fact, you were honest enough to share your opinion at a public forum. Nobody is trying to "pick" on you but you just have to accept the fact that all people are different but their basic rights and responsibilities are the same.

**Iconoclast** · 02-02-2008, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

3) I have seen plenty of occasions when someone expressing such intolerance (calling gay people faggots to their face) has caused much hurt to those being put down in this way.

I agree that it is gratuitously mean, but I do not think it should be illegal to be mean - just as I do not think it should be illegal to go the pash on the bus. Both are simple bad manners.

What does the word revolting mean?

It means more than just a turn off. A quick look at dictionary.com and we get repulsive, abhorrent, filled with disgust, etc. Basically it is something pretty horrible.

Sorry mate, but the thought of receiving an oral protein injection via pulsing glans has me looking for the door, any door, except for the back door. The word "revolting" fits.

I don't find homosexuality revolting. Does that mean I am in-the-closet bisexual? lol

Potentially, yes. You simply haven't been lonely enough in a big city.

I think that someone's initial response to something they don't understand can be one of disgust, but surely as a tolerant human being they would try to understand what they are seeing and then they could no longer feel that way?

I don't understand what joy there is in being a trough monkey, and no amount of "tolerance" is going to stop me being discussed.

Iconoclast, why do you assume that all heteros find homosexuality abhorrent? I believe that many do not. Just as I believe (from countless conversations with gay people) that alll gay people do not necessarily find sex with the opposite sex abhorrent.

If you are not revolted by the idea of actually rubbing your rude bits with the same sex, you are not an ordinary heterosexual. You/they are somewhere between being a practising straight, and a closet bisexual.

Having said that, I still don't care what you do with (or fantasise about) with your rude bits. I don't condemn you/them, nor do I approve of others condemning you/them. However, I will say that should not be condemned for finding the thought of rimming a cowboy gives me reason to chuck up.

Finally, several people have used the word "tolerance." The word has started to get a bad name because it sends the the message that we "don't like you/it/them," but we are not going to do anything about it. Sorry, dudes, but there is nothing wrong with not liking XYZ. Be honest but diplomatic AND be tolerant but not sycophantic.

02-01-2008, 10:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 152	Homosexual Experience ok, the other day i am on the bus when who sits right in front of me but two kids about 20. no worries so far, but then i notice they are holdings hands. the instant i see it my stomach begins to turn then the two ******* start kissing - oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god, this is right in front of the seat in front of me!!!!!!!!!!! anyway i am totally disgusted by this and one of them is wearing an earing, and the get off before i do and are still holding their hands and i am still horrified because i just witnessed the most revolting thing i have ever seen. its strange in a way that this is my instinctual reaction because i alway thought of myself as a tolerant person who didn't care about shit like this but then it confronts you and all of a sudden your values or what you thought were your values are tested. anyway i originally come from port hedland and i can tell you we don't have a gay community there and if we do they certainly don't reveal it so blatently as kissing and holding hands on a bus. anyway i was kind of fucked up about what i saw and i talked to my girlfriend about it and she said that i needed to learn to be more of a 21st century man and that there was nothing wrong with what they did or are, and i know in my head that this is true but all i can say is that i couldn't help how i felt when i saw them kissing right in front of me and that i was disgusted by it and never want to see that sort of thing again. is there something wrong with me, am i allowed toi have these feelings. i guess i have to adjust to this kind of stuff now that i am living in a big city. __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer Last edited by Just2Good : 02-03-2008 at 02:44 PM Reason: See last post in thread for further info

02-01-2008, 11:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 98	Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan then the two faggots start kissing - oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god, Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war? What kind of rock have you been living under? I am fairly immune to idiotic posts on forums but seriously that post really pisses me off. Let me ask you a question, would it have bothered you if it was 2 girls kissing?

02-01-2008, 11:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
MichaelBaron Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 136	Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan i was disgusted by it and never want to see that sort of thing again. is there something wrong with me, am i allowed toi have these feelings. i guess i have to adjust to this kind of stuff now that i am living in a big city. Just because you do not want to see it, does not mean they are not entitled to express their feelings publicly...

02-01-2008, 11:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Exposure to New Lifestyle Choices Dear Fischer-Fan Yours views on homosexuality seem to be outdated. There was a time when I too found the practice, well, unpalatable. But time changes one's perspectives. Your girlfriend is right, the year 2008 is no place for an attitude of hostility towards homosexuals or lesbians. I do, however, understand you come from a small town and are now living in a big city. Indeed, changing your view and becoming accepting will take time but I think your mind will open eventually and you may even one day find yourself with a homosexual boyfriend and think to yourself, 'why did I ever find being gay revolting'?. For the record I have never had this, do not want this and do not seek this, but we are talking about you and not me. Best wishes on your journey through life and overcoming these pre-conceived views which restrict you. Unlike WE and Michael Baron I am not going to dump on you for expressing your views. I just think you need time and exposure to these new concepts and lifestyle choices. You will surely be a better person after you have had such. AO __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

02-01-2008, 11:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 98	AO, my problem is not so much with Fischer-Fan's view but the way he expresses it. I object to him using the extremely derogatory word ******, calling homosexuality revolting etc. Last edited by Just2Good : 02-03-2008 at 02:44 PM Reason: See last post in thread for further info*

02-02-2008, 07:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by WhiteElephant Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war? No fear of that OzChess has a good record of civility. Now, W/E, The Baron, AO: You need to stop being so politically correct. FF is fully within the normal range. I support him in expressing HIS FEELINGS. I concur with his assertion that what he witnessed was very disconcerting. I will add MY FEELINGS to this thread too. There are times and places for everything. Some are culturally derived and some are instinctual. Examples of this are that, humans in all societies like to crap in private, nesting/burrow animals crap elsewhere. Copulation occurs mostly in estrus. Fornicating in front of your grandmother is more than a faux pas. The homosexuals going the pash in the middle of a bus right in front of someone is simply plain bad manners. The same applies to heterosexuals. We all should endeavour to refrain from unnecessarily offending people regardless of our liberty to do so. The pair in this case are doubly guilty because that are no doubt aware that their sexuality is particularly offensive - rightly or wrongly - to a large proportion of the public. As for my reaction to sexuality, it is simple. If I particularly don't like the idea of engaging in a specific sexual act, I call it revolting. If I do like it, I call it sexy. Who the hell has the right to tell me what I should or should not find revolting or sexy. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

02-02-2008, 07:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by WhiteElephant I object to him ... calling homosexuality revolting etc. Frankly I don't care what sexuality any person has - it is their business and they can love it as much as they like. However, homosexuality IS revolting for heterosexuals. If it was not, they would be in-the-closet bisexuals. W/E, do you know how homosexuals feel about having sex with the opposite sex? Revolted. They can say that and I don't care because that is their feeling about it. FF and I should be able to say the same about the idea of engaging in homosexual acts, without having the though police taking us in for questioning. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

02-02-2008, 11:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
MichaelBaron Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 136	Originally Posted by Iconoclast The pair in this case are doubly guilty because that are no doubt aware that their sexuality is particularly offensive - rightly or wrongly - to a large proportion of the public. I agree....ppl kissing on a bus is immature (regardless of one's sexuality) However, it was no more offensive than 20 yo boy kissing his 18yo gf...We do find such public expressions of feeling a bit annoying at times..but come on - they are still kids. What really upsets me about Iconoplast's post is the concept of "it was wrong because it was not percived well by the public". In this case, we got a problem with public rather than with that two love-birds. People should learn to overcome ignorance and zero tolerance and accept the fact that everyone is different as well as the fact that everyone is equal in the rights to express their feelings. If you go to Amsterdam or Paris or London or...you name it! Same sex couples walk around holding hands....and nobody seems to get upset about it. Getting upset about someone's sexuality is no different from getting "upset" about one's religion, nationality or race. Some years ago, I was really surprised that Pauline Hanson recieved so many votes in QLD in rural areas...and now i am no longer surprised.

02-02-2008, 12:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 152	clearing up some facts Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Indeed, changing your view and becoming accepting will take time but I think your mind will open eventually and you may even one day find yourself with a homosexual boyfriend and think to yourself, 'why did I ever find being gay revolting'?. this is never going to happen. i like my girlfriend and having sex with her only and someday i hope to marry her and have kids. homosexuals don't have kids you know unless they adopt them from heterosexuals. Originally Posted by WhiteElephant Are you for real or are you trying to start a flame war? What kind of rock have you been living under? I am fairly immune to idiotic posts on forums but seriously that post really pisses me off. Let me ask you a question, would it have bothered you if it was 2 girls kissing? i am for real. if some idiot sits down in front of you and starts farting which disrupts your peaceful enkoyment of the bus, do you have no right to say anything or complain? for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me. Originally Posted by MichaelBaron Just because you do not want to see it, does not mean they are not entitled to express their feelings publicly... once again i use the fart analogy. just because it may be permissible to do something does not mean that it should be done! Originally Posted by WhiteElephant AO, my problem is not so much with Fischer-Fan's view but the way he expresses it. I object to him using the extremely derogatory word faggots, calling homosexuality revolting etc. ao changed that word without my permission which i am not happy about this. it was my post and i am entitled to have my opinion. Originally Posted by Iconoclast No fear of that OzChess has a good record of civility. civility is fine but i don't like my posts being editted though! Originally Posted by Iconoclast Now, W/E, The Baron, AO: You need to stop being so politically correct. FF is fully within the normal range. I support him in expressing HIS FEELINGS. I concur with his assertion that what he witnessed was very disconcerting. I will add MY FEELINGS to this thread too. thank you. maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland. __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer

02-02-2008, 12:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 98	Thank you for your posts, Iconoclast. I guess I reacted the way I did to Fischer Fan's posts for several reasons: 1) I do not see anything out of the ordinary when I see gay people publicly displaying affection. I have gay friends and have had gay flatmates, go to rave parties where there are gay guys kissing everywhere, etc. I personally don't feel comfortable displaying affection in public. If other people want to hold hands that is fine with me, I agree that kissing can get too much when it is in your face from either straight or gay people. 2) As I mentioned, I did not like the way in which Fischer Fan expressed himself, it was derogatory and showed an intolerance of gay people. 3) I have seen plenty of occasions when someone expressing such intolerance (calling gay people faggots to their face) has caused much hurt to those being put down in this way. Originally Posted by Iconoclast homosexuality IS revolting for heterosexuals. If it was not, they would be in-the-closet bisexuals. W/E, do you know how homosexuals feel about having sex with the opposite sex? Revolted. They can say that and I don't care because that is their feeling about it. FF and I should be able to say the same about the idea of engaging in homosexual acts, without having the though police taking us in for questioning. What does the word revolting mean? It means more than just a turn off. A quick look at dictionary.com and we get repulsive, abhorrent, filled with disgust, etc. Basically it is something pretty horrible. I don't find homosexuality revolting. Does that mean I am in-the-closet bisexual? lol I think that someone's initial response to something they don't understand can be one of disgust, but surely as a tolerant human being they would try to understand what they are seeing and then they could no longer feel that way? Iconoclast, why do you assume that all heteros find homosexuality abhorrent? I believe that many do not. Just as I believe (from countless conversations with gay people) that alll gay people do not necessarily find sex with the opposite sex abhorrent. If you prefer one thing, then it does not necessarily follow that you must dislike its opposite.

02-02-2008, 12:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 98	Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me. Why is that? Aren't they also homosexuals? Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland. LOL...did I say everyone wants to be a 'homo'? Your use of the word 'homo' is offensive by they way. But clearly you don't mind being offensive to 'them'. I will reiterate, I have no problem with you not wanting to see homosexuality displayed in public. That is fair enough. I do have a problem with you labeling someone good or bad, and using derogatory language, when you don't understand them.

02-02-2008, 08:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	AO, I am not of the opinion that we should edit out the word "faggot" or any other word. I would much prefer - as has been done in the past - to politely ask the poster to reconsider the word/reference/phrase/term. It has worked in the past to keep the standard high and we should, I believe, continue with that policy. If we need to discuss further, we can start another thread. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

02-02-2008, 08:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by MichaelBaron What really upsets me about Iconoplast's post is the concept of "it was wrong because it was not percived well by the public". Sorry, but I must not have made my point clear. I am saying that in general, if the general public find an act in public offensive, then it is only good manners not to do it. I make/made no comment about the rightness/wrongness of engaging in a homosexual act. People should learn to overcome ignorance and zero tolerance and accept the fact that everyone is different ... Overcome ignorance? Agreed. Zero tolerance? For what? I have zero tolerance for child rapists. But hey, they are "different." Zero tolerance is a good weapon to have in your arsonal, to use sparingly, at the right time. I will make more comment on "tolerance" later below. Getting upset about someone's sexuality is no different from getting "upset" about one's religion, nationality or race. About nationality, agreeded. About race, agreeded. About religion, NOT agreeded. The first to are accidents of birth. Religion is a conscious decision to be idiotic. You should reply to this on one of the religion threads. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

02-02-2008, 08:47 PM	#14 (permalink)
MichaelBaron Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 136	Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan this is never going to happen. i like my girlfriend and having sex with her only and someday i hope to marry her and have kids. homosexuals don't have kids you know unless they adopt them from heterosexuals. i am for real. if some idiot sits down in front of you and starts farting which disrupts your peaceful enkoyment of the bus, do you have no right to say anything or complain? for answer to your question no, two girls kissing would not have bothered me. once again i use the fart analogy. just because it may be permissible to do something does not mean that it should be done! ao changed that word without my permission which i am not happy about this. it was my post and i am entitled to have my opinion. civility is fine but i don't like my posts being editted though! thank you. maybe someone needs to tell the elephant that not everybody wants to be a homo and that some people really don't want to see homosexuality so publicly displayed. that is not unreasonable. and i am from western australia not country queensland. 1)It is your choice to love your girlfriend only ..and to have kids with her...If same sex couples are not able to have kids...how does it add value to your argument? 2) No need to tell elephant or anyone else that "not everbody wants to be a homo". Homosexuality is not a choice! People are born this way! So when it comes to rights, I see no difference in how rights of people should depend on their sexuality etc. If you think that homosexuality is a choice it is not your fault, but the fault of your high school teachers/parents who failed to educate you well. Today, the nature of human sexuality is common knowledge that every adult should know about. 3) How can you compare a couple kissing to farting? Would you like same sex couples to make similar comparisons about you and your gf? 4) Regarding "its my post and I am entitled to my opinion". You are certainly entitled to have an opinion but a) your language was not appropriate (if a homosexual person (and some chess players are homosexual) was reading your posting, he surely got insulted. 5) You are probably still a very young person who is yet to learn a lot of things about the world we are living in (e.g. that homosexuality is a choice) and by the time you complete your uni studies as well as graduate from the "school of life" you will understand how wrong you were. In fact, you were honest enough to share your opinion at a public forum. Nobody is trying to "pick" on you but you just have to accept the fact that all people are different but their basic rights and responsibilities are the same.

02-02-2008, 09:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by WhiteElephant 3) I have seen plenty of occasions when someone expressing such intolerance (calling gay people faggots to their face) has caused much hurt to those being put down in this way. I agree that it is gratuitously mean, but I do not think it should be illegal to be mean - just as I do not think it should be illegal to go the pash on the bus. Both are simple bad manners. What does the word revolting mean? It means more than just a turn off. A quick look at dictionary.com and we get repulsive, abhorrent, filled with disgust, etc. Basically it is something pretty horrible. Sorry mate, but the thought of receiving an oral protein injection via pulsing glans has me looking for the door, any door, except for the back door. The word "revolting" fits. I don't find homosexuality revolting. Does that mean I am in-the-closet bisexual? lol Potentially, yes. You simply haven't been lonely enough in a big city. I think that someone's initial response to something they don't understand can be one of disgust, but surely as a tolerant human being they would try to understand what they are seeing and then they could no longer feel that way? I don't understand what joy there is in being a trough monkey, and no amount of "tolerance" is going to stop me being discussed. Iconoclast, why do you assume that all heteros find homosexuality abhorrent? I believe that many do not. Just as I believe (from countless conversations with gay people) that alll gay people do not necessarily find sex with the opposite sex abhorrent. If you are not revolted by the idea of actually rubbing your rude bits with the same sex, you are not an ordinary heterosexual. You/they are somewhere between being a practising straight, and a closet bisexual. Having said that, I still don't care what you do with (or fantasise about) with your rude bits. I don't condemn you/them, nor do I approve of others condemning you/them. However, I will say that should not be condemned for finding the thought of rimming a cowboy gives me reason to chuck up. Finally, several people have used the word "tolerance." The word has started to get a bad name because it sends the the message that we "don't like you/it/them," but we are not going to do anything about it. Sorry, dudes, but there is nothing wrong with not liking XYZ. Be honest but diplomatic AND be tolerant but not sycophantic. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

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