God Related Discussions - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 10-20-2007, 09:22 PM

A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy

**Chessic-Adventures** · 10-20-2007, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy

I am not sure why he chooses to wear a mask over his face, but the substance of what he is saying I have no objections with. I only had time to watch half though, so maybe if he says something objectionable in the last half, I haven't heard it.

**Just2Good** · 10-21-2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy

Matt,

One of the things you should be mindful of is that academics will usually say anything to:

(a) Sell books
(b) Try to appear more intelligent than they really are; and
(c) Become well known enough to guarantee their tenure at the University they teach at.

In other words, they are motivated out of self interest.

I very much would place Richard Dawkins in this category. Sorry I couldn't tell you that sooner, might have saved you $40 bucks.

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures

but the substance of what he is saying I have no objections with.

Have a proper look. It's satire.

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

(a) Sell books
(b) Try to appear more intelligent than they really are; and
(c) Become well known enough to guarantee their tenure at the University they teach at.

In other words, they are motivated out of self interest.

Not a useful rule(s) of thumb to apply to authors and their books. Apllication of them would see no book burning because nobody would ever buy them.

I read what they have written and attempt to fit it with what I already know or modify my knowledge base to accomodate. When a writer is obfuscating* it is obvious to me, so I read it anyway to remind myself of what self deluded fools some people can be.

* btw, this word was first used on CC by me. I claim it, along with "Name names."

**WhiteElephant** · 10-21-2007, 02:58 PM

I recently had a go at reading Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. While I found the subject matter interesting, I thought there was way too much scientific terminology for the lay reader to follow (despite the fact that Dawkins claims he wrote the book for people with no scientific knowledge). I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over.

I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good?

**phild707** · 10-21-2007, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy

OK here's Phil's religion.

God was invented by the human brain and has no existence outside of it.
The reason for his invention was to dull the pain of our own mortality.
I realise that this is an uncomfortable truth for many.
Sorry.

**Just2Good** · 10-21-2007, 04:39 PM

Phil my friend,

Please take no offence to my analysis of your assertions.

Originally Posted by phild707

God was invented by the human brain and has no existence outside of it.

Wrong!

Originally Posted by phild707

The reason for his invention was to dull the pain of our own mortality.

Wrong!

Originally Posted by phild707

I realise that this is an uncomfortable truth for many.

Its not truth at all, and therefore doesn't make me uncomfortable

Originally Posted by phild707

Sorry.

Its quite alright.

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

I recently had a go at reading Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. While I found the subject matter interesting, I thought there was way too much scientific terminology for the lay reader to follow (despite the fact that Dawkins claims he wrote the book for people with no scientific knowledge). I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over.

I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good?

I doubt it WE, seems to me to be a well marketed book, like The Secret, but ultimately the failure of some publishing company to return it to sender with the word "Cow Dung" written on it before publication.

ps- White Elephant, whose flag is that?

**phild707** · 10-21-2007, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Phil my friend,

Please take no offence to my analysis of your assertions.

Wrong!

Wrong!

Its not truth at all, and therefore doesn't make me uncomfortable

Its quite alright.

But how could I take offence at your "analysis" AO??
You haven't presented any such thing

But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it (as did the sulky Egor of me)

**Just2Good** · 10-21-2007, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by phild707

But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it (as did the sulky Egor of me)

Thanks for that Phil

Opinions aside, I think the evidence seems to be stronger for an argument that God does exist as opposed to the opposite argument.

For instance, if God did not create the world, oceans, stars, planets, and life generally, then how was such created?

Please don't feel obliged to answer, just thinking out loud.

AO

**WhiteElephant** · 10-21-2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

ps- White Elephant, whose flag is that?

It is the Ukranian flag which is technically the country of my birth (since the USSR no longer exists

)

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over.

Yes, sometimes, sadly, scientist assume a tad to much from the lay person. However, his more recent books ("Climbing Mt. Improbable") have been softened appropriately.

I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good?

It's a polemic garrenteed to offend, so it is something to wake most people from their daily torpor. I enjoyed it.

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by phild707

But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it

You are too kind. You would not let a Flat-Earther get away with their insainity, or a alien abduction victim hoodwink themselves and others. Why would you let a gnostic foul the enlightenment.

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

For instance, if God did not create the world, oceans, stars, planets, and life generally, then how was such created?

There is a library in every town. Get out of the 200 series and down to the 500s. Try this order:
521
539
547
572
576

**Gendo Ikari** · 10-21-2007, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteElephant

It is the Ukranian flag which is technically the country of my birth (since the USSR no longer exists )

Speak for yourself, comrade.

10-20-2007, 09:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	God Related Discussions A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy. http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy

10-20-2007, 11:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 213	Originally Posted by Iconoclast A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy. http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy I am not sure why he chooses to wear a mask over his face, but the substance of what he is saying I have no objections with. I only had time to watch half though, so maybe if he says something objectionable in the last half, I haven't heard it.

10-21-2007, 02:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 4,041 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Dawkins Motivated Out of Self Interest Originally Posted by Iconoclast A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy. http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy Matt, One of the things you should be mindful of is that academics will usually say anything to: (a) Sell books (b) Try to appear more intelligent than they really are; and (c) Become well known enough to guarantee their tenure at the University they teach at. In other words, they are motivated out of self interest. I very much would place Richard Dawkins in this category. Sorry I couldn't tell you that sooner, might have saved you $40 bucks. __________________ . "Men at some time are masters of their fate. The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves..." ~ Cassius ~

10-21-2007, 02:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures but the substance of what he is saying I have no objections with. Have a proper look. It's satire. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 02:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One (a) Sell books (b) Try to appear more intelligent than they really are; and (c) Become well known enough to guarantee their tenure at the University they teach at. In other words, they are motivated out of self interest. Not a useful rule(s) of thumb to apply to authors and their books. Apllication of them would see no book burning because nobody would ever buy them. I read what they have written and attempt to fit it with what I already know or modify my knowledge base to accomodate. When a writer is obfuscating* it is obvious to me, so I read it anyway to remind myself of what self deluded fools some people can be. * btw, this word was first used on CC by me. I claim it, along with "Name names." __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 02:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 94	I recently had a go at reading Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. While I found the subject matter interesting, I thought there was way too much scientific terminology for the lay reader to follow (despite the fact that Dawkins claims he wrote the book for people with no scientific knowledge). I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over. I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good?

10-21-2007, 03:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
phild707 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burnie International Airport Posts: 277	No frills religion Originally Posted by Iconoclast A while back I read Richards Dawkin's "The God Delusion," and am currently reading "Daniel Denett's "Breaking the Spell." I was prompted to take a gander at YouTube, where I found this guy. http://www.youtube.com/user/SoldierInGodsArmy OK here's Phil's religion. God was invented by the human brain and has no existence outside of it. The reason for his invention was to dull the pain of our own mortality. I realise that this is an uncomfortable truth for many. Sorry. __________________ "A prudent question is one half of wisdom". Francis Bacon

10-21-2007, 04:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 4,041 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Another Conclusion Phil my friend, Please take no offence to my analysis of your assertions. Originally Posted by phild707 God was invented by the human brain and has no existence outside of it. Wrong! Originally Posted by phild707 The reason for his invention was to dull the pain of our own mortality. Wrong! Originally Posted by phild707 I realise that this is an uncomfortable truth for many. Its not truth at all, and therefore doesn't make me uncomfortable Originally Posted by phild707 Sorry. Its quite alright. Originally Posted by WhiteElephant I recently had a go at reading Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. While I found the subject matter interesting, I thought there was way too much scientific terminology for the lay reader to follow (despite the fact that Dawkins claims he wrote the book for people with no scientific knowledge). I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over. I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good? I doubt it WE, seems to me to be a well marketed book, like The Secret, but ultimately the failure of some publishing company to return it to sender with the word "Cow Dung" written on it before publication. ps- White Elephant, whose flag is that? __________________ . "Men at some time are masters of their fate. The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves..." ~ Cassius ~

10-21-2007, 06:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
phild707 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burnie International Airport Posts: 277	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Phil my friend, Please take no offence to my analysis of your assertions. Wrong! Wrong! Its not truth at all, and therefore doesn't make me uncomfortable Its quite alright. But how could I take offence at your "analysis" AO?? You haven't presented any such thing But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it (as did the sulky Egor of me) __________________ "A prudent question is one half of wisdom". Francis Bacon

10-21-2007, 06:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 4,041 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by phild707 But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it (as did the sulky Egor of me) Thanks for that Phil Opinions aside, I think the evidence seems to be stronger for an argument that God does exist as opposed to the opposite argument. For instance, if God did not create the world, oceans, stars, planets, and life generally, then how was such created? Please don't feel obliged to answer, just thinking out loud. AO __________________ . "Men at some time are masters of their fate. The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves..." ~ Cassius ~

10-21-2007, 07:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
WhiteElephant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 94	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One ps- White Elephant, whose flag is that? It is the Ukranian flag which is technically the country of my birth (since the USSR no longer exists )

10-21-2007, 07:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	Originally Posted by WhiteElephant I gave up about half way through after getting sick of having to look up the meanings of specialised terms over and over. Yes, sometimes, sadly, scientist assume a tad to much from the lay person. However, his more recent books ("Climbing Mt. Improbable") have been softened appropriately. I have been thinking of reading The God Delusion, any good? It's a polemic garrenteed to offend, so it is something to wake most people from their daily torpor. I enjoyed it. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 07:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	Originally Posted by phild707 But I do respect your right to a different opinion and I do not demand that you defend it You are *too* kind. You would not let a Flat-Earther get away with their insainity, or a alien abduction victim hoodwink themselves and others. Why would you let a gnostic foul the enlightenment. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 07:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,249	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One For instance, if God did not create the world, oceans, stars, planets, and life generally, then how was such created? There is a library in every town. Get out of the 200 series and down to the 500s. Try this order: 521 539 547 572 576 __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 10:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 100	Originally Posted by WhiteElephant It is the Ukranian flag which is technically the country of my birth (since the USSR no longer exists ) Speak for yourself, comrade.

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