God Related Discussions - Page 17 - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 10-15-2009, 01:39 AM

I read this a little while ago and thought it was interesting enough to post, especially as it was written in the late 1940's early 1950's.

Ever since men were able to think they have been wondering what this universe really is and how it came to be there. And, very roughly, two views have been held.

First, there is what is called the materialistic view. People who take that view think that matter and space just happen to exist, and always have existed, nobody knows why; and that the matter, behaving in certain fixed ways, has just happened, by a sort of fluke, to produce creatures like ourselves who are able to think. By one chance in a thousand something hit our sun and made it produce the planets; and by another thousandth of a chance the chemicals necessary for life, and the right temperature, occurred on one of these planets, and so some of the matter on this earth came alive; and then, by a very long series of chances, the living creatures developed into things like us.

The other view is the religious view. According to it, what is behind the universe is more like a mind than it is like anything else we know. That is to say, it is conscious, and has purpose, and prefers one thing to another. And on this view it made the universe, partly for purposes we do not know, but partly, at any rate, in order to produce creatures like itself.

I thought it was a nice summarization the the two prevailing schools of thought even in today's day, and it clearly shows that the fantasy atheist believe in is even more far fetched than the notion of a God - which they often ridicule for that very reason.

**antichrist** · 10-15-2009, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

I read this a little while ago and thought it was interesting enough to post, especially as it was written in the late 1940's early 1950's.

I thought it was a nice summarization the the two prevailing schools of thought even in today's day, and it clearly shows that the fantasy atheist believe in is even more far fetched than the notion of a God - which they often ridicule for that very reason.

Yes AO whatever you say - they are coming to take you away ha ha they are coming to take you away ha ha

**Axiom** · 01-01-2010, 02:21 AM

Would be interested to get the views of christians here on new zealand's
John D. Christian , author of Hidden Secrets of the Alpha Course and
The Green Prince and the 4th Horse of the Apocalypse Jono must know of him , love to know his take !

Just discovered this new rabbit hole of reality research and after a quick look at the 2nd book/link above ,it seems rich in fascinating tidbits of historical information .

Be curious as to what christians think of this Alpha Course too with respect to this author's view .
Welcome | Alpha
Alpha course - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Axiom** · 01-01-2010, 02:53 AM

Book Exposes Illuminati "Alpha Course"

December 30, 2009

by Nancy Thomson

A book available online, "The Hidden Secrets of the Alpha Course" by New Zealander John D. Christian exposes the insidious Illuminati Alpha Course as occult indoctrination posing as an introduction to Christianity.

"Alpha" is being used in over 150 countries encompassing 49 different languages. It has infiltrated the homes, schools, universities, business, hospitals, prisons, churches and even the military.

Since London is known to be the headquarters of the occult, it is not surprising that the Alpha originated there. In 1970 an English cleric, Charles Marnham, devised a four- week series of lessons for non-churchgoers and new Christians. In 1981, Nicky Gumbel, a former barrister of Holy Trinity Brompton, extended the course to 8 weeks. This is how the fastest growing ecumenical evangelization program in world history began.

Alpha presents itself as a "new beginning" and its course structure became a tool for church growth and indoctrination. Videos and tapes, specially produced by the speakers are based on the book titled Questions of Life. This book sets out the structure and content of Alpha.

Group sessions included weekly suppers and discussions, culminating in a "Holy Spirit Weekend Away." Hailed as a means to bring people to a personal salvation, the Alpha course does this without preaching the Gospel.

The Holy Spirit Weekend Away, which is mandatory, is actually a thinly disguised devil worship experience. Alpha's Questions of Life book, the basis of the whole course, is the structure used to pervert the Gospel. In addition to the "Holy Spirit Weekend," the Alpha Course uses mind-control encapsulated and propaganda to sway the innocents.

EXPLOSIVE GROWTH

In just over 20 years, the Alpha system is growing like wildfire in Protestant and Catholic churches. Marriage courses, Alpha in the Workplace, and 80 percent of all prisons and universities in the UK now run Alpha. There were 8,142 Alpha courses running in over 7,300 all denomination churches in the UK alone. The number of churches in the U.S. using Alpha is growing faster than any other country.

Growth is a very important factor in this system. It's not surprising therefore that our mega-churches such as Rick Warren's PURPOSE-DRIVEN Saddleback Church are involved. The true purpose behind the PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH AND LIFE is the establishment of a final One World Religion. Key advisers from all over America gathered in London in 2003 to report on their plans to implement Alpha into the U.S. churches.

The congregation and friends of Holy Trinity Brompton financed the Alpha development, and resource courses were sold at a profit. Since the goal was to involve the whole world in their project, Alpha International was founded in 2001. Capitol investment became worldwide, and was headed by a Jewish banker, Ken Costa, Chairman of Alpha Partners.

This banker just happened to be Vice Chairman of UBS -Warburg, London. UBS stands for Union Bank of Switzerland-Warburg. The banking firm of Walburg has long been linked to the giant international Marxist Rothschild banking conglomerate based in the City of London. Isn't it strange that Warburg would be running a Christian organization?

ILLUMINATI BANKERS

The book contains extensive information about the Illuminati bankers and their Satanic predilections.

Our Federal Reserve System had as its prime mover the late Mr Paul Warburg whose brother was involved with the international banking house of Kuhn, Loeb that included Jacob Schiff . The Schiff's are the oldest contemporary Jewish family dating back to 1370. These men, besides implementing our Federal Reserve System, helped found the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland that is scheduled to become the World Bank. The huge Rockefeller Manhattan Bank united with the Chase Bank controlled by Kuhn, Loeb. Then the Rothchild/Warburg took over control of this bank.

Many are under the false impression that banking conglomerates J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller are American. They are not. Rockefellers owned a small portion of their bank and J.P. Morgan was founded in London. "British" control of our banking system dates back to the original founding of the Virginia Company.

Books authored by the Warburgs contain communist propaganda. James Warburg was a member of Franklin Roosevelt's Brain Trust, masterminded Eisenhower's presidential campaign, and was chief financier of the United World Federalist World Government movement.

Communism is the end product of apostate Christendom-both Catholic and Protestant. All "New Age" Bibles were produced by 2 English professors who were Communists and Christian Socialists.

Bibles promoted by the Alpha library are these: The Bible for Today, The Contemporary English Version and the NIV. These are actually Communist versions based on corrupt text. Fabian Socialism is linked to a "Christian Socialist" organization. The "war on terrorism" is a classic British Fabian Socialist strategy. Inflict a series of "terrorist attacks" against a targeted population, use reaction from the attacks to justify the solution--i.e. to implement a police state over the region. Fabians acknowledge the principal tenet of Marxism, the abolition of private property.

On August 15th 1995, Russia and Boeing signed a contract to develop the first module of the new Alpha International Space Station. Massive sums of money by the U.S., Russia and the European Space Agency have been spent. Scheduled for completion in 2006, we are told the International Station is just "a scientific space laboratory."

Alpha MIRCAL lasers were being developed at White Sands Missile Base in 1985. Some speculate that the Alpha MIRCAL lasers could be used for mind control purposes in connection with the International Space Station.

--

**Axiom** · 01-01-2010, 03:08 AM

Cannot find anything about the author ,pseudonym or not , anywhere online !!

**antichrist** · 03-17-2010, 01:45 AM

Over there they are having a big debate because Jono has been described as a logician in a book that he has written on Creatism/or young earth science.

Jono, it is not too difficult to get a formal qualification in logic - even I have studied logic at uni - but I would never dare title myself as a logician as hype or seriously.

You should have described yourself as "bullshit artist" because that is what you specialise in as a creationist.

**Just2Good** · 03-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Over there they are having a big debate because Jono has been described as a logician in a book that he has written on Creatism/or young earth science.

Jono, it is not too difficult to get a formal qualification in logic - even I have studied logic at uni - but I would never dare title myself as a logician as hype or seriously.

You should have described yourself as "bullshit artist" because that is what you specialise in as a creationist.

Your description seems to overlook Rincewind's role in the discussion which I think is altogether out to lunch. The notion that mankind was not created by a higher power is simply ridiculous in the extreme. To Jono's credit, at least he has acknowledged this, but he is not immune to numerous other criticisms.

**Iconoclast** · 03-17-2010, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

[font="Georgia"]The notion that mankind was not created by a higher power is simply ridiculous in the extreme.

And your proof is ........

**Just2Good** · 03-17-2010, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

And your proof is ........

Click below:

God Related Discussions

**Axiom** · 03-17-2010, 10:07 PM

To me, the ET Intervention hypothesis carries as much , if not more ,weight than the evolution theory alone, and more weight than the religious god model in explaining man's existence .

**antichrist** · 03-17-2010, 10:11 PM

Imagine if this Creator had made us having permanent orgasims - we would not worry about acculating too much money etc, drug addicts would be so happy they would need drugs, we would not be able to concentrate on chess etc etc, no wars etc

**Iconoclast** · 03-18-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Click below:

God Related Discussions

That is not proof. That is not even an argument. It is only two alternate points of view - neither of which were well constructed.

"Life" and "consciousness" are NOT ridiculously extremely unlikely. In actual fact, they are certain to occur. No god required.

Show me your numbers.

**antichrist** · 03-19-2010, 02:53 AM

according to prince charles even trees have consciousness - wow

**Jesus Christ** · 04-19-2010, 04:47 PM

Please, have you gentlemen read the Holy Scriptures yet?

**Axiom** · 04-19-2010, 06:13 PM

10-15-2009, 01:39 AM	#241 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Observations I read this a little while ago and thought it was interesting enough to post, especially as it was written in the late 1940's early 1950's. Ever since men were able to think they have been wondering what this universe really is and how it came to be there. And, very roughly, two views have been held. First, there is what is called the materialistic view. People who take that view think that matter and space just happen to exist, and always have existed, nobody knows why; and that the matter, behaving in certain fixed ways, has just happened, by a sort of fluke, to produce creatures like ourselves who are able to think. By one chance in a thousand something hit our sun and made it produce the planets; and by another thousandth of a chance the chemicals necessary for life, and the right temperature, occurred on one of these planets, and so some of the matter on this earth came alive; and then, by a very long series of chances, the living creatures developed into things like us. The other view is the religious view. According to it, what is behind the universe is more like a mind than it is like anything else we know. That is to say, it is conscious, and has purpose, and prefers one thing to another. And on this view it made the universe, partly for purposes we do not know, but partly, at any rate, in order to produce creatures like itself. I thought it was a nice summarization the the two prevailing schools of thought even in today's day, and it clearly shows that the fantasy atheist believe in is even more far fetched than the notion of a God - which they often ridicule for that very reason. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

10-15-2009, 05:30 PM	#242 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One I read this a little while ago and thought it was interesting enough to post, especially as it was written in the late 1940's early 1950's. I thought it was a nice summarization the the two prevailing schools of thought even in today's day, and it clearly shows that the fantasy atheist believe in is even more far fetched than the notion of a God - which they often ridicule for that very reason. Yes AO whatever you say - they are coming to take you away ha ha they are coming to take you away ha ha

01-01-2010, 02:21 AM	#243 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Ax Seeks Help With his Reality Research Would be interested to get the views of christians here on new zealand's John D. Christian , author of Hidden Secrets of the Alpha Course and The Green Prince and the 4th Horse of the Apocalypse Jono must know of him , love to know his take ! Just discovered this new rabbit hole of reality research and after a quick look at the 2nd book/link above ,it seems rich in fascinating tidbits of historical information . Be curious as to what christians think of this Alpha Course too with respect to this author's view . Welcome \| Alpha Alpha course - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

01-01-2010, 02:53 AM	#244 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Book Exposes Illuminati "Alpha Course" December 30, 2009 by Nancy Thomson A book available online, "The Hidden Secrets of the Alpha Course" by New Zealander John D. Christian exposes the insidious Illuminati Alpha Course as occult indoctrination posing as an introduction to Christianity. "Alpha" is being used in over 150 countries encompassing 49 different languages. It has infiltrated the homes, schools, universities, business, hospitals, prisons, churches and even the military. Since London is known to be the headquarters of the occult, it is not surprising that the Alpha originated there. In 1970 an English cleric, Charles Marnham, devised a four- week series of lessons for non-churchgoers and new Christians. In 1981, Nicky Gumbel, a former barrister of Holy Trinity Brompton, extended the course to 8 weeks. This is how the fastest growing ecumenical evangelization program in world history began. Alpha presents itself as a "new beginning" and its course structure became a tool for church growth and indoctrination. Videos and tapes, specially produced by the speakers are based on the book titled Questions of Life. This book sets out the structure and content of Alpha. Group sessions included weekly suppers and discussions, culminating in a "Holy Spirit Weekend Away." Hailed as a means to bring people to a personal salvation, the Alpha course does this without preaching the Gospel. The Holy Spirit Weekend Away, which is mandatory, is actually a thinly disguised devil worship experience. Alpha's Questions of Life book, the basis of the whole course, is the structure used to pervert the Gospel. In addition to the "Holy Spirit Weekend," the Alpha Course uses mind-control encapsulated and propaganda to sway the innocents. EXPLOSIVE GROWTH In just over 20 years, the Alpha system is growing like wildfire in Protestant and Catholic churches. Marriage courses, Alpha in the Workplace, and 80 percent of all prisons and universities in the UK now run Alpha. There were 8,142 Alpha courses running in over 7,300 all denomination churches in the UK alone. The number of churches in the U.S. using Alpha is growing faster than any other country. Growth is a very important factor in this system. It's not surprising therefore that our mega-churches such as Rick Warren's PURPOSE-DRIVEN Saddleback Church are involved. The true purpose behind the PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH AND LIFE is the establishment of a final One World Religion. Key advisers from all over America gathered in London in 2003 to report on their plans to implement Alpha into the U.S. churches. The congregation and friends of Holy Trinity Brompton financed the Alpha development, and resource courses were sold at a profit. Since the goal was to involve the whole world in their project, Alpha International was founded in 2001. Capitol investment became worldwide, and was headed by a Jewish banker, Ken Costa, Chairman of Alpha Partners. This banker just happened to be Vice Chairman of UBS -Warburg, London. UBS stands for Union Bank of Switzerland-Warburg. The banking firm of Walburg has long been linked to the giant international Marxist Rothschild banking conglomerate based in the City of London. Isn't it strange that Warburg would be running a Christian organization? ILLUMINATI BANKERS The book contains extensive information about the Illuminati bankers and their Satanic predilections. Our Federal Reserve System had as its prime mover the late Mr Paul Warburg whose brother was involved with the international banking house of Kuhn, Loeb that included Jacob Schiff . The Schiff's are the oldest contemporary Jewish family dating back to 1370. These men, besides implementing our Federal Reserve System, helped found the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland that is scheduled to become the World Bank. The huge Rockefeller Manhattan Bank united with the Chase Bank controlled by Kuhn, Loeb. Then the Rothchild/Warburg took over control of this bank. Many are under the false impression that banking conglomerates J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller are American. They are not. Rockefellers owned a small portion of their bank and J.P. Morgan was founded in London. "British" control of our banking system dates back to the original founding of the Virginia Company. Books authored by the Warburgs contain communist propaganda. James Warburg was a member of Franklin Roosevelt's Brain Trust, masterminded Eisenhower's presidential campaign, and was chief financier of the United World Federalist World Government movement. Communism is the end product of apostate Christendom-both Catholic and Protestant. All "New Age" Bibles were produced by 2 English professors who were Communists and Christian Socialists. Bibles promoted by the Alpha library are these: The Bible for Today, The Contemporary English Version and the NIV. These are actually Communist versions based on corrupt text. Fabian Socialism is linked to a "Christian Socialist" organization. The "war on terrorism" is a classic British Fabian Socialist strategy. Inflict a series of "terrorist attacks" against a targeted population, use reaction from the attacks to justify the solution--i.e. to implement a police state over the region. Fabians acknowledge the principal tenet of Marxism, the abolition of private property. On August 15th 1995, Russia and Boeing signed a contract to develop the first module of the new Alpha International Space Station. Massive sums of money by the U.S., Russia and the European Space Agency have been spent. Scheduled for completion in 2006, we are told the International Station is just "a scientific space laboratory." Alpha MIRCAL lasers were being developed at White Sands Missile Base in 1985. Some speculate that the Alpha MIRCAL lasers could be used for mind control purposes in connection with the International Space Station. -- __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

01-01-2010, 03:08 AM	#245 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	update Cannot find anything about the author ,pseudonym or not , anywhere online !! __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

03-17-2010, 01:45 AM	#246 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=273433#post273433 Over there they are having a big debate because Jono has been described as a logician in a book that he has written on Creatism/or young earth science. Jono, it is not too difficult to get a formal qualification in logic - even I have studied logic at uni - but I would never dare title myself as a logician as hype or seriously. You should have described yourself as "bullshit artist" because that is what you specialise in as a creationist.

03-17-2010, 03:55 PM	#247 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by antichrist Over there they are having a big debate because Jono has been described as a logician in a book that he has written on Creatism/or young earth science. Jono, it is not too difficult to get a formal qualification in logic - even I have studied logic at uni - but I would never dare title myself as a logician as hype or seriously. You should have described yourself as "bullshit artist" because that is what you specialise in as a creationist. Your description seems to overlook Rincewind's role in the discussion which I think is altogether out to lunch. The notion that mankind was not created by a higher power is simply ridiculous in the extreme. To Jono's credit, at least he has acknowledged this, but he is not immune to numerous other criticisms. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

03-17-2010, 08:01 PM	#248 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Just2Good [font="Georgia"]The notion that mankind was not created by a higher power is simply ridiculous in the extreme. And your proof is ........ __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

03-17-2010, 08:19 PM	#249 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast And your proof is ........ Click below: God Related Discussions __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

03-17-2010, 10:07 PM	#250 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	E T I To me, the ET Intervention hypothesis carries as much , if not more ,weight than the evolution theory alone, and more weight than the religious god model in explaining man's existence . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 03-18-2010 at 08:01 PM

03-17-2010, 10:11 PM	#251 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Imagine if this Creator had made us having permanent orgasims - we would not worry about acculating too much money etc, drug addicts would be so happy they would need drugs, we would not be able to concentrate on chess etc etc, no wars etc

03-18-2010, 06:55 PM	#252 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Just2Good Click below: God Related Discussions That is not proof. That is not even an argument. It is only two alternate points of view - neither of which were well constructed. "Life" and "consciousness" are NOT ridiculously extremely unlikely. In actual fact, they are certain to occur. No god required. Show me your numbers. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

03-19-2010, 02:53 AM	#253 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	according to prince charles even trees have consciousness - wow

04-19-2010, 04:47 PM	#254 (permalink)
Jesus Christ Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1	Please, have you gentlemen read the Holy Scriptures yet?

04-19-2010, 06:13 PM	#255 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Romans:13 __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 04-19-2010 at 07:36 PM

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