Should sexual harassment be illegal? - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2010, 07:54 PM

Harassment: verb: to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.

Manners:
a. the prevailing customs, ways of living, and habits of a people, class, period, etc.; mores:
b.
ways of behaving with reference to polite standards; social comportment:

Should "bad manners" be illegal? My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong?

(Note: I have no pending court cases or axes to grind. This is purely an exercise.)

**Axiom** · 08-13-2010, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong?

Yes.
I think you might find its a touch higher on the totem pole than that , hence the words "sexual" and "harassment" being used and not "sexual" and "bad manners".
So it is beyond bad manners and into the realm of harassment .
But where is this line drawn ?
That's where the lawyers come in .

Hope that has helped sort out any confusion.

**Jaydon** · 08-13-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Should "bad manners" be illegal? My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong?

Yeah I'd say sexual harassment is a little worse then bad manners.. bad manners is speaking with your mouth full at the table, although that could leave psychological damage I'd say it would occur a little more in cases of sexual harassment.

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2010, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

But where is this line drawn ?
That's where the lawyers come in .

Exactly!

Are we allowing the courts, manipulated by lawyers skills, to draw the line for us? Have the courts become the the law makers rather than the law appliers? Court rulings set presidents which become quasi law.

Relating this to the topic at hand, have courts made "bad manners" - eg "Geez you got got a rack worth worth buying dinner for" repeated ten times - into something that requires legal action rather than a threat of castration.

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2010, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jaydon

Yeah I'd say sexual harassment is a little worse then bad manners.. bad manners is speaking with your mouth full at the table, although that could leave psychological damage I'd say it would occur a little more in cases of sexual harassment.

Manners is more than talking with your mouthful. It is everything from knowing when to shake hands to when to STFU, what time of the day to ask someone out that night to when to stop asking them out.

Being inept or uncultured or rude or inappropriate, ought not be something, I think, that must be handled by the law. Such ordinary transgressions ought to be handled by ordinary people.

**Jaydon** · 08-13-2010, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Manners is more than talking with your mouthful. It is everything from knowing when to shake hands to when to STFU, what time of the day to ask someone out that night to when to stop asking them out.

Being inept or uncultured or rude or inappropriate, ought not be something, I think, that must be handled by the law. Such ordinary transgressions ought to be handled by ordinary people.

Sure but it usually becomes illegal either because the harasser is very rich... or because things get out of hand. Not because they wont stop asking you out but because perhaps they keep trying to grab at something they shouldn't or if they are acting very intimidating, perhaps even suggesting that if they don't do something for them then that could have a negative impact. Plus you are using sexual harassment as a general term but not knowing when to stop asking someone out wouldn't apply to a situation where the victim is 9 years old.

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2010, 09:56 PM

Jaydon, you make many very good point here. (Highlighted)

Originally Posted by Jaydon

Sure but it usually becomes illegal either because the harasser is very rich... or because things get out of hand. Not because they wont stop asking you out but because perhaps they keep trying to grab at something they shouldn't or if they are acting very intimidating, perhaps even suggesting that if they don't do something for them then that could have a negative impact. Plus you are using sexual harassment as a general term but not knowing when to stop asking someone out wouldn't apply to a situation where the victim is 9 years old.

I agree with all the highlighted. So what does a photo of Miss XYZ from "New Idea" placed on the notice board qualify as? Sexual harassment? The courts say yes.

**Jaydon** · 08-13-2010, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Sexual harassment? The courts say yes.

Well yes I think cases like that are completely stupid and the victim only has a problem with it because they'll get some good money out of it. People say you shouldn't undermine their situation because they were told how attractive they were a few too many times and it really hurt their feelings

Of course a few million should fix the immense scarring caused by something of such a horrific nature

**antichrist** · 08-13-2010, 11:55 PM

I was sexually harrassed by about 30 girls once for a year and I loved it (then I woke up). But I know if unwanted the victim can become quite depressed and repel from a work situation and therefore lose will to work etc. So a strong response is necessary.

But some cases where a hot female teacher took on a 16 y o male student (whom loved it) I think the reaction is overboard, in spite of lack of trust etc that has been breached.

**Axiom** · 08-15-2010, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

I was sexually harrassed by about 30 girls once

I was once taken advantage of by a marauding gang of highly sexed gerbils .

**Iconoclast** · 08-15-2010, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Axiom

I was once taken advantage of by a marauding gang of highly sexed gerbils .

I thought there was only one Reich Minister of Propaganda.

**Axiom** · 08-15-2010, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I thought there was only one Reich Minister of Propaganda.

you're thinking of Goebbels.
and whats more , you should be disgusted in yourself for coming up with such a depraved notion

...actually , ....you might have just sexually harassed me then .

**antichrist** · 08-15-2010, 08:50 PM

I remember years ago when a groups of American girls locked up some evangaelising Mormons and somehow managed to rape them, they were locked up in prison, they were just to bring the silly guys out of the clouds and down to earth. Figuratively and literally.

The Mormons not just proved that they were not just stupid for being Mormons but also for complaining about the girls.

**antichrist** · 08-15-2010, 10:39 PM

I am going to arrange for a female friend of mine to join the same co as myself, than I agressively sexually harrass her, she gets a fortune and we split the loot - and her enjoying every sec of my harrassament. Beauty

**Axiom** · 08-15-2010, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

I am going to arrange for a female friend of mine to join the same co as myself, than I agressively sexually harrass her, she gets a fortune and we split the loot - and her enjoying every sec of my harrassament. Beauty

yep , that's worthy of a Reality Analyst award .

08-13-2010, 07:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Should sexual harassment be illegal? Harassment: verb: to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute. Manners: a. the prevailing customs, ways of living, and habits of a people, class, period, etc.; mores: b. ways of behaving with reference to polite standards; social comportment: Should "bad manners" be illegal? My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong? (Note: I have no pending court cases or axes to grind. This is purely an exercise.) __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-13-2010, 08:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong? Yes. I think you might find its a touch higher on the totem pole than that , hence the words "sexual" and "harassment" being used and not "sexual" and "bad manners". So it is beyond bad manners and into the realm of harassment . But where is this line drawn ? That's where the lawyers come in . Hope that has helped sort out any confusion. __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 08-13-2010 at 08:50 PM

08-13-2010, 08:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Should "bad manners" be illegal? My personal opinion is that sexual harassment is "bad manners." Am I wrong? Yeah I'd say sexual harassment is a little worse then bad manners.. bad manners is speaking with your mouth full at the table, although that could leave psychological damage I'd say it would occur a little more in cases of sexual harassment.

08-13-2010, 09:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Axiom But where is this line drawn ? That's where the lawyers come in . Exactly! Are we allowing the courts, manipulated by lawyers skills, to draw the line for us? Have the courts become the the law makers rather than the law appliers? Court rulings set presidents which become quasi law. Relating this to the topic at hand, have courts made "bad manners" - eg "Geez you got got a rack worth worth buying dinner for" repeated ten times - into something that requires legal action rather than a threat of castration. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-13-2010, 09:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Jaydon Yeah I'd say sexual harassment is a little worse then bad manners.. bad manners is speaking with your mouth full at the table, although that could leave psychological damage I'd say it would occur a little more in cases of sexual harassment. Manners is more than talking with your mouthful. It is everything from knowing when to shake hands to when to STFU, what time of the day to ask someone out that night to when to stop asking them out. Being inept or uncultured or rude or inappropriate, ought not be something, I think, that must be handled by the law. Such ordinary transgressions ought to be handled by ordinary people. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-13-2010, 09:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Manners is more than talking with your mouthful. It is everything from knowing when to shake hands to when to STFU, what time of the day to ask someone out that night to when to stop asking them out. Being inept or uncultured or rude or inappropriate, ought not be something, I think, that must be handled by the law. Such ordinary transgressions ought to be handled by ordinary people. Sure but it usually becomes illegal either because the harasser is very rich... or because things get out of hand. Not because they wont stop asking you out but because perhaps they keep trying to grab at something they shouldn't or if they are acting very intimidating, perhaps even suggesting that if they don't do something for them then that could have a negative impact. Plus you are using sexual harassment as a general term but not knowing when to stop asking someone out wouldn't apply to a situation where the victim is 9 years old.

08-13-2010, 09:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Jaydon, you make many very good point here. (Highlighted) Originally Posted by Jaydon Sure but it usually becomes illegal either because the harasser is very rich... or because things get out of hand. Not because they wont stop asking you out but because perhaps they keep trying to grab at something they shouldn't or if they are acting very intimidating, perhaps even suggesting that if they don't do something for them then that could have a negative impact. Plus you are using sexual harassment as a general term but not knowing when to stop asking someone out wouldn't apply to a situation where the victim is 9 years old. I agree with all the highlighted. So what does a photo of Miss XYZ from "New Idea" placed on the notice board qualify as? Sexual harassment? The courts say yes. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-13-2010, 10:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Sexual harassment? The courts say yes. Well yes I think cases like that are completely stupid and the victim only has a problem with it because they'll get some good money out of it. People say you shouldn't undermine their situation because they were told how attractive they were a few too many times and it really hurt their feelings Of course a few million should fix the immense scarring caused by something of such a horrific nature

08-13-2010, 11:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	I was sexually harrassed by about 30 girls once for a year and I loved it (then I woke up). But I know if unwanted the victim can become quite depressed and repel from a work situation and therefore lose will to work etc. So a strong response is necessary. But some cases where a hot female teacher took on a 16 y o male student (whom loved it) I think the reaction is overboard, in spite of lack of trust etc that has been breached.

08-15-2010, 02:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by antichrist I was sexually harrassed by about 30 girls once I was once taken advantage of by a marauding gang of highly sexed gerbils . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

08-15-2010, 03:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Axiom I was once taken advantage of by a marauding gang of highly sexed gerbils . I thought there was only one Reich Minister of Propaganda. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-15-2010, 03:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I thought there was only one Reich Minister of Propaganda. you're thinking of Goebbels. and whats more , you should be disgusted in yourself for coming up with such a depraved notion ...actually , ....you might have just sexually harassed me then . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 08-15-2010 at 04:14 AM

08-15-2010, 08:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	I remember years ago when a groups of American girls locked up some evangaelising Mormons and somehow managed to rape them, they were locked up in prison, they were just to bring the silly guys out of the clouds and down to earth. Figuratively and literally. The Mormons not just proved that they were not just stupid for being Mormons but also for complaining about the girls.

08-15-2010, 10:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	I am going to arrange for a female friend of mine to join the same co as myself, than I agressively sexually harrass her, she gets a fortune and we split the loot - and her enjoying every sec of my harrassament. Beauty

08-15-2010, 10:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	*** * * * * Originally Posted by antichrist I am going to arrange for a female friend of mine to join the same co as myself, than I agressively sexually harrass her, she gets a fortune and we split the loot - and her enjoying every sec of my harrassament. Beauty yep , that's worthy of a Reality Analyst award . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom**

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