Education for All - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 03:18 PM

I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school.

Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far. A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits.

Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise.

Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7.

Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees.

Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok. A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one.

Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow?

**Axiom** · 11-08-2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school.

Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far. A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits.

Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise.

Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7.

Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees.

Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok. A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one.

Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow?

What do you expect when one tries to break down a young human mind in an enforced indoctrination centre .
Mass schooling has very little to do with education but far more to do with producing subserviant and compliant 'work units' for the plantation.

[Please see my Schooling thread in the RER Sub-forum.]

**hobsonbay player** · 11-08-2009, 04:47 PM

AX, you are not great help .Where looking for short term solution not all
this babbling for ICON . Maybe change of career is answer

or just
holiday .

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

What do you expect when one tries to break down a young human mind in an enforced indoctrination centre .

Teachers DO NOT turn students into violet thugs. So, what should *** I *** do?

**Axiom** · 11-08-2009, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Teachers DO NOT turn students into violent thugs.

Not directly or willfully but unfortunately as part of the system and the front line enactors of that system ,teachers must bear responsibility for their role in producing the results of that system .

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

So, what should *** I *** do?

Do the most amount of good you can within the system by ameliorating as much as possible its harmful systemic elements .

**hobsonbay player** · 11-08-2009, 05:59 PM

First time you really offered a solution to someone AX !, instead of ideology
you usually force down people's throats . Perhaps you are seeing the light

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

... by ameliorating as much as possible its harmful systemic elements .

Q1. What are those elements?
Q2. Summarise the hard evidence that show that those elements have actually created the violent thugs I have to deal with. [Good luck - you are going to need it.]

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by hobsonbay player

First time you ... [blah blah blah]

Do you like going the niggle? Haven't you got something better to do than stir up shit. If you have nothing to say about violence in public schools, STFU.

**Axiom** · 11-08-2009, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Q1. What are those elements?
Q2. Summarise the hard evidence that show that those elements have actually created the violent thugs I have to deal with. [Good luck - you are going to need it.]

A1. The elements are the features of the system that produce unhappy ,frustrated ,bored ,stifled , aggressive , rebellious young humans .
Such things as the system's compulsory nature , its curriculum , teaching methods , lack of freedom , lack of real personal choice , lack of individual liberty , authoritarian conforming culture , lack of exploring real history , lack of real informing abut self,culture and human reality .
If the mass indoctrinations camps were really about education then they would have classes on the following 1) corruption 2)tyranny
3)the lying media 4) manipulation .....so we really educate humans to
protect themselves as opposed to being kept in the dark whilst bankers rape them blind .

A2. evidence : the writings of charlotte izerbyt and john taylor gatto and my 'Schooling' thread ! Schooling

"There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions". Ludwig von Mises

**Just2Good** · 11-08-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school.

Why don't you just use an exam from last year and save yourself the trouble? In high school I had one teacher who did this religiously. Last years exam was pretty much word for word this years exam which was pretty much word for word the same exam from 5 years ago!

Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far.

Less kids = same teacher's salary = good deal!

A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits.

Its Doeberl all over again!

Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise.

No sport for the kiddies. Alright, well, most of them wouldn't make it pro anyway!

Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7.

Hmmmmmmm, what can I say?

Maybe two permanent suspensions for these two students.

Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees.

More fights? Maybe things have become more violent since I left high school.

Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok.

Well, even if they fail the exam they can still pass for the semester as a whole, right?

A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one.

Threatening to kill a teacher. Hmmmmmmm

Well, somethings not right about that!

Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow?

Probably what I am sure most teachers do these days.

Give them their school work, and the one's from good families and good students generally will perform well. The one's from low socio-economic families will do poorly. Then life will pretty much award the same grade 10, 20, and 40 years down the track.

**hobsonbay player** · 11-08-2009, 06:48 PM

l'am interested have you express your concern with Educational department ?
If so what sort alternative programs have you in place because sounds like
you are hitting your head against brick wall and because nothing else is working.
Perhaps you need a summit for Teachers, Students, to thrash out some
issues concerning your school and future .BTW is this private school or Public ?

**MOZ** · 11-08-2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

...

Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow?

You will do inevitably the same tomorrow as you have done today.

Your school's apparent lack of discipline and leadership cannot be solved without

an injection of resources
a different programme/policy, and probably
some changes of personnel.

And it would be unlikely that 3 months is sufficient to make change occur.

Sad as this prognosis sounds for the cultural illness around and in your school, be assured that repair programmes exist.

regards
MOZ*

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

You will do inevitably the same tomorrow as you have done today.

Your school's apparent lack of discipline and leadership cannot be solved without
an injection of resources

a different programme/policy, and probably

some changes of personnel.

And it would be unlikely that 3 months is sufficient to make change occur.

Sad as this prognosis sounds for the cultural illness around and in your school, be assured that repair programmes exist.

regards
MOZ*

I agree entirely. I would, however, add that a "repair programme" is in ferment. It needs to be sold to the desperate but reluctant buyers.

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

[font="Georgia"]Why don't you just use an exam from last year and save yourself the trouble?

New curriculum. Governments like them so they can say that they are doing wonderous things.

Less kids = same teacher's salary = good deal!

Good deal in the class room, bad deal for society when, under educated students become under educated voters. [Cue in AX - "I told you so."

]

Hmmmmmmm, what can I say? Maybe two permanent suspensions for these two students.

Agreed, but it won't happen. The Govt gets rid of principals (and principles) if their expulsion rate is high.

More fights? Maybe things have become more violent since I left high school.

Yes

Well, even if they fail the exam they can still pass for the semester as a whole, right?

yes

Threatening to kill a teacher. Hmmmmmmm Well, somethings not right about that!

yes

Probably what I am sure most teachers do these days.

Give them their school work, and the one's from good families and good students generally will perform well. The one's from low socio-economic families will do poorly. Then life will pretty much award the same grade 10, 20, and 40 years down the track.

yes

**Iconoclast** · 11-08-2009, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by hobsonbay player

l'am interested have you express your concern with Educational department ?

Are you kidding. The Union is always the the best place to start.

If so what sort alternative programs have you in place because sounds like you are hitting your head against brick wall and because nothing else is working.

There is nothing

Perhaps you need a summit for Teachers, Students, to thrash out some
issues concerning your school and future .

Summits are all hot air. I am on a mission. Wish me luck.

BTW is this private school or Public ?

You're kidding, right?

11-08-2009, 03:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Education for All I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school. Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far. A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits. Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise. Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7. Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees. Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok. A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one. Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 03:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school. Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far. A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits. Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise. Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7. Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees. Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok. A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one. Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow? What do you expect when one tries to break down a young human mind in an enforced indoctrination centre . Mass schooling has very little to do with education but far more to do with producing subserviant and compliant 'work units' for the plantation. [Please see my Schooling thread in the RER Sub-forum.] __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

11-08-2009, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Axiom What do you expect when one tries to break down a young human mind in an enforced indoctrination centre . Teachers DO NOT turn students into violet thugs. So, what should * I * do? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 05:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Teachers DO NOT turn students into violent thugs. Not directly or willfully but unfortunately as part of the system and the front line enactors of that system ,teachers must bear responsibility for their role in producing the results of that system . Originally Posted by Iconoclast So, what should * I * do? Do the most amount of good you can within the system by ameliorating as much as possible its harmful systemic elements . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

11-08-2009, 06:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Axiom ... by ameliorating as much as possible its harmful systemic elements . Q1. What are those elements? Q2. Summarise the hard evidence that show that those elements have actually created the violent thugs I have to deal with. [Good luck - you are going to need it.] __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 04:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
hobsonbay player Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 180	AX, you are not great help .Where looking for short term solution not all this babbling for ICON . Maybe change of career is answer or just holiday .

11-08-2009, 05:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
hobsonbay player Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 180	First time you really offered a solution to someone AX !, instead of ideology you usually force down people's throats . Perhaps you are seeing the light

11-08-2009, 06:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by hobsonbay player First time you ... [blah blah blah] Do you like going the niggle? Haven't you got something better to do than stir up shit. If you have nothing to say about violence in public schools, STFU. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 06:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Q1. What are those elements? Q2. Summarise the hard evidence that show that those elements have actually created the violent thugs I have to deal with. [Good luck - you are going to need it.] A1. The elements are the features of the system that produce unhappy ,frustrated ,bored ,stifled , aggressive , rebellious young humans . Such things as the system's compulsory nature , its curriculum , teaching methods , lack of freedom , lack of real personal choice , lack of individual liberty , authoritarian conforming culture , lack of exploring real history , lack of real informing abut self,culture and human reality . If the mass indoctrinations camps were really about education then they would have classes on the following 1) corruption 2)tyranny 3)the lying media 4) manipulation .....so we really educate humans to protect themselves as opposed to being kept in the dark whilst bankers rape them blind . A2. evidence : the writings of charlotte izerbyt and john taylor gatto and my 'Schooling' thread ! Schooling "There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions". Ludwig von Mises __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 11-08-2009 at 07:26 PM

11-08-2009, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Week at School! Originally Posted by Iconoclast I have just been writing an exam and its marking rubric. My mind turned to Monday (tomorrow) and I thought I would share with you some events from last week at school. Why don't you just use an exam from last year and save yourself the trouble? In high school I had one teacher who did this religiously. Last years exam was pretty much word for word this years exam which was pretty much word for word the same exam from 5 years ago! Monday: 650 enrolments, only about 500 turned up for roll call. Normal so far. Less kids = same teacher's salary = good deal! A fight crashed out of another classroom in to the corridor. I had to separate them physically, being myself pushed about as I protected one from continuing to bash the other to bits. Its Doeberl all over again! Tuesday: Had sport where anyone can play anything they want (or not) while it was 38 degrees and insufficient shade or grass available (Nor do classrooms have air conditioning). Why? Students no longer play competition sports because so many never bring bus money and the bus company will not take them and the school has no money left to subsidise. No sport for the kiddies. Alright, well, most of them wouldn't make it pro anyway! Wednesday: A female teacher was picked up of the ground and manhandled (assault) by a female student. I take one of my students to see the councillor because of chronic truancy. Find that he has had four suspensions this year for violence – he is in year 7. Hmmmmmmm, what can I say? Maybe two permanent suspensions for these two students. Thursday: Raining, therefore lunchtime fights in the available sweaty and confined spaces. Six (6) knockdown drag ‘em out fights (a new record I think) – one of them between two girls. A 60-ish year old teacher nearing retirement was hit three times in the chest in one of the melees. More fights? Maybe things have become more violent since I left high school. Friday: Year 10s last day before exams in which about two thirds will fail, were running amok. Well, even if they fail the exam they can still pass for the semester as a whole, right? A 50-ish year old female teacher knocked into a wall with shoulder injuries in one of the stampedes. A Year 8 girl in one of my classes who returned form suspension just last Friday, gets suspended again for repeatedly telling a number of teachers exactly what she thought of them and threatening to kill one. Threatening to kill a teacher. Hmmmmmmm Well, somethings not right about that! Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow? Probably what I am sure most teachers do these days. Give them their school work, and the one's from good families and good students generally will perform well. The one's from low socio-economic families will do poorly. Then life will pretty much award the same grade 10, 20, and 40 years down the track. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

11-08-2009, 06:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
hobsonbay player Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 180	l'am interested have you express your concern with Educational department ? If so what sort alternative programs have you in place because sounds like you are hitting your head against brick wall and because nothing else is working. Perhaps you need a summit for Teachers, Students, to thrash out some issues concerning your school and future .BTW is this private school or Public ?

11-08-2009, 06:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... Now people, what should I as a teacher do tomorrow? You will do inevitably the same tomorrow as you have done today. Your school's apparent lack of discipline and leadership cannot be solved without an injection of resources a different programme/policy, and probably some changes of personnel. And it would be unlikely that 3 months is sufficient to make change occur. Sad as this prognosis sounds for the cultural illness around and in your school, be assured that repair programmes exist. regards MOZ* __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-08-2009, 07:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by MOZ You will do inevitably the same tomorrow as you have done today. Your school's apparent lack of discipline and leadership cannot be solved without an injection of resources a different programme/policy, and probably some changes of personnel. And it would be unlikely that 3 months is sufficient to make change occur. Sad as this prognosis sounds for the cultural illness around and in your school, be assured that repair programmes exist. regards MOZ* I agree entirely. I would, however, add that a "repair programme" is in ferment. It needs to be sold to the desperate but reluctant buyers. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 07:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Just2Good [font="Georgia"]Why don't you just use an exam from last year and save yourself the trouble? New curriculum. Governments like them so they can say that they are doing wonderous things. Less kids = same teacher's salary = good deal! Good deal in the class room, bad deal for society when, under educated students become under educated voters. [Cue in AX - "I told you so."] Hmmmmmmm, what can I say? Maybe two permanent suspensions for these two students. Agreed, but it won't happen. The Govt gets rid of principals (and principles) if their expulsion rate is high. More fights? Maybe things have become more violent since I left high school. Yes Well, even if they fail the exam they can still pass for the semester as a whole, right? yes Threatening to kill a teacher. Hmmmmmmm Well, somethings not right about that! yes Probably what I am sure most teachers do these days. Give them their school work, and the one's from good families and good students generally will perform well. The one's from low socio-economic families will do poorly. Then life will pretty much award the same grade 10, 20, and 40 years down the track. yes __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

11-08-2009, 07:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by hobsonbay player l'am interested have you express your concern with Educational department ? Are you kidding. The Union is always the the best place to start. If so what sort alternative programs have you in place because sounds like you are hitting your head against brick wall and because nothing else is working. There is nothing Perhaps you need a summit for Teachers, Students, to thrash out some issues concerning your school and future . Summits are all hot air. I am on a mission. Wish me luck. BTW is this private school or Public ? You're kidding, right? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

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