Libertarianism v Collectivism - Page 6 - OzChess

**Axiom** · 03-09-2010, 04:33 PM

Are You a 'TC' Proponent?

Most have heard all they want to know about 'PC' or political correctness. But how many of you have come into contact with a much more hideous and sinister value system called 'TC'? And even more important, are you an advocate of this behavior and its imposition on society? So just what is this conduct and who are the people who accept its tenants?

Fiat money creators that enslave the public with their hatred for honest money; are the designers of TC.

If you support the estate tax, progressive income tax, its graduated increase on greater income and redistribution of wealth; YOU are a TC.

Advocates of direct elections for the Presidency (as well as Senators), and the abolishment of the Electoral College; YOU are a TC.

Proponents of the UN involvement's that conflict with American interests and impose compliance upon nations that differ with the world community; are TC.

Champions of criminalizing more non violent conduct, while applying lenient standards for the political and attorney class; are the creators of TC.

Supporters of the Corporate economy, with its designed elimination of small business; is a key element of TC.

Accountants that defend insane tax policies that force producers to adopt behavior and decisions that have no economic value, but will reduce tax obligations; are implementers of TC.

Whiners that demand special treatment from government at the expense of the rest, are truly TC.

Shapers of public images and editors of news that tell only a favorable account of their masters and refuse to speak ill of corrupt political, business and public leaders; are the messengers of TC.

Government bureaucrats that live for benefits and pensions, while the policies that they administer destroy the lives of honest citizens; are the foot soldiers of TC.

Local elected officials that routinely accept unconstitutional laws from State and Federal departments and courts, and do nothing to challenge their fraud; are subverters for TC goals.

Educators who impose an official line for acceptable thought and refuse to debate the merits of contrary views; are the keepers of the TC keys.

Tree huggers that force unemployment upon families with their belief in senseless and unscientific theories; are TC members.

Civil Rights advocates who's notion of fairness justifies stealing from others to establish equality; are the robbers for TC.

Private Property destroyers who rationalize piracy from others for the greater good of themselves or their 'so called' society; are TC thieves.

Feminists that promote killing as a 'RIGHT' of woman and seek to cheapen all life as a means to express yourself; are TC harlots.

But the most disgusting of all, are the hypocrites who know exactly what TC is, understand that it is indefensible and evil, and continue to advocate it's use upon the sovereign individuals of America; are the worst of all TC's.

So by now you may want to know just what TC stands for? Well TC is 'Totalitarian Collectivism'. It is much more dynamic than the guilt and peer pressure tactic of Political Correctness. For force is the operative word in the T. Imposition of penalties and sanctions are the means upon which individuals are compelled to accept the tenants of TC. TC is based upon the power of the State to control people. Their methods are designed to coerce acceptance and mold behavior. The C is the object of the elite's dream of complete dominion. Collectivism encompasses all the ism's that seek to enslave man. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and the current 'Third Wave', are all part of the same scam that has been used to deceive mankind into willingly giving up their individual rights for the false promises, of a dishonest slave master. The correctness in PC is the secular relativism that justifies accepting an erroneous assemblage of political doctrines. While the collectivism in TC is the absolute aim and ultimate goal for the domination of humanity.

PC is bad enough, but TC will secure the shackle and chains of despair and suffering, on the vast hordes of humankind. You are urged to start using this term in your writing and conversations and start explaining the threat that really is before us. TC is real and the operative dictum of this age. Our mutual duty is to resist it in any and every form it takes. Our aspiration is to empower the greatest number of individuals to seek and realize the excellent and ability of their talents to achieve wealth, health, meaning and purpose for their life. This goal cannot be realized within a TC culture. The enemy of the human race are the proponents, protectors and defenders of TC. Will you join the crusade against this infidel or are you content to accept the fate that is planned for you? This is one war that we are all involved, one that cannot be escaped or one that cannot be ignored. The destiny of mankind rests upon your decision to resist.

**Axiom** · 03-15-2010, 08:31 PM

One Nation, Two Systems:

So theory isn't enough. They don't believe our theories. We need to show them that libertarianism works in real life, not just in theory. To do this, we generally appeal to historical examples of societies with successful libertarian policies and institutions.

The problem with this approach is that none of these societies was purely libertarian. Each was a mix of libertarian and non-libertarian elements. And so it is open to our libertarian opponents to claim that the positive aspects of those societies were the result of the non-libertarian elements rather than the libertarian ones; instead, the libertarian elements get the blame for the negative aspects. We, of course, respond that they've got things backwards: for example, in discussions of 19th-century America our opponents seek to blame the depredations of the Robber Barons on unfettered capitalism, while giving government intervention on behalf of labor the credit for rising wages — while we, armed with our dusty tomes and dreary charts, insist that unfettered capitalism must be given the credit for rising wages, while blaming the depredations of the Robber Barons on government intervention on behalf of big business.1

**antichrist** · 03-21-2010, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist
Maybe, but liberterians are also against state taxes, yet our taxes are jacked up to support all the druggies in housing, food, medical etc coz they have cooked their brains. They are extremely selfish in self destruction and then expect everything laid on for them. Then the healthy sane ones who have stayed away from the funny stuff have to put up with with the drongos for the rest of our lives. Frankly I don't want to see or hear of them.

They should be put on a funny farm and made to feed themselves.

Axiom
You have now declared yourself officially as a brainwashed socialist fascist collectivist freedom denying gatekeeping zombie .

FG, do you have anything to add- I am used to copping a lashing from you as well.

**Axiom** · 03-23-2010, 06:40 PM

**Axiom** · 04-06-2010, 08:07 PM

Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live”

Please consider the following :

"When so-called “right-wingers” or libertarians merely write letters urging peaceful political change, they are demonized as terrorist hate-mongers, but when greenies openly call for criminal behavior allied with thinly veiled threats of physical violence, it’s no big deal."

Why do you think this is , i mean really think ?

Well, it clearly shows which ideology really threatens the established-free-range-serf-farmer order .

Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live”

**antichrist** · 04-09-2010, 06:36 PM

[quote=Axiom;25594]Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live”

Please consider the following :

"When so-called “right-wingers” or libertarians merely write letters urging peaceful political change, they are demonized as terrorist hate-mongers, but when greenies openly call for criminal behavior allied with thinly veiled threats of physical violence, it’s no big deal."

Why do you think this is , i mean really think ?

A/C
coz humans have forfeited their place on earth for stuffing the place completely up - do selfish and stupid they are! They have wrecked it for so many other species and cruelly used and abused so many other species.

Shame on humanity!

Humans are the genocidal freak show on Earth

**Axiom** · 04-09-2010, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

[

Humans are the genocidal freak show on Earth

That is what your free range serf farmers tell you, yes .
While they blame you , they continue to poison your air ,food and water supplies as you blissfully cheer on your own destruction .

It is possible to deprogram yourself .
One way to start is to study psychopathology and ponerology conjunctively .

One in a hundred is born a psychopath .
And guess what particularly interests them ?
Power.
Many seek out positions of power .

This is just one , but very important piece in revealing 'real reality' (as we call it in the reality analysis business) as opposed to the prescribed programmed faux reality , fed to us from cradle to grave .

**fastmoves** · 04-10-2010, 11:20 AM

I think I'd go with being a socialist but I'd have to go confer to make sure

**Axiom** · 04-10-2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by fastmoves

I think I'd go with being a socialist but I'd have to go confer to make sure

Well stop being a dupe and become a libertarian !

**antichrist** · 04-17-2010, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

Well stop being a dupe and become a libertarian !

Libertarians dont want to pay taxes but still want to attend hospitals - they are hypocriticial bludgers

**Axiom** · 04-17-2010, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Libertarians dont want to pay taxes but still want to attend hospitals - they are hypocriticial bludgers

totally incorrect premise , leading to the predictable brainwashed programmed ,uninformed , unthinking conclusion.

**antichrist** · 04-18-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

totally incorrect premise , leading to the predictable brainwashed programmed ,uninformed , unthinking conclusion.

Well the ones that I have met certainly don't believe in the state and don't want to pay taxes to such - but they still jump into hospital quick smart esp if having heart attack. And they don't care about international drug company conspiracies then either - they then just swallow those pills like good little Catholic kids swallow the Holy Euchartis

**Axiom** · 04-18-2010, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Well the ones that I have met certainly don't believe in the state and don't want to pay taxes to such - but they still jump into hospital quick smart esp if having heart attack. And they don't care about international drug company conspiracies then either - they then just swallow those pills like good little Catholic kids swallow the Holy Euchartis

sounds like you've been in the company of faux libertarians , as real libertarians understand the responsibilty that comes with liberty .
I advocate a straight flat sales tax on everything , no income tax . This way ensures parity , and fairness for all .
I'm also highly suspicious of big pharma .

For real libertarians , i refer you to the cato institute and the freeman institute .

**Hayek** · 04-27-2010, 09:50 AM

The phrase "real libertarians" doesn't really mean anything though. To you, a certain subset of libertarianism may be "real" and others not, but in reality, there are different levels of libertarianism just as there are different levels of liberalism or conservatism. As someone who does lean libertarian (usually identify myself as paleoconservative,) I still accept the fact that there are left libertarians, not to mention left and right anarchists- both which are more extreme forms of libertarianism.

Also, while Cato is great and I too support them, most people would probably call Mises "more" libertarian than them. ( Ludwig von Mises Institute - Homepage if you haven't heard of that institution and want to read more)

**antichrist** · 04-27-2010, 03:06 PM

I seen Cato mentioned for the first time in the mainstream the other day (have no idea what they are about yet), it did not seem complimentary, I think was about militia groups in USA. What is wrong with Aussie brand libtertarianism like we had Aussie-brand commos, like my mate Jack Mundy?

The American scene is a bit put-offish to Aussies. Though the same enemies may seem to be out there (if you look hard enough you can see anything)

03-09-2010, 04:33 PM	#76 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Totalitarian Collectivism Totalitarian Collectivism Are You a 'TC' Proponent? Most have heard all they want to know about 'PC' or political correctness. But how many of you have come into contact with a much more hideous and sinister value system called 'TC'? And even more important, are you an advocate of this behavior and its imposition on society? So just what is this conduct and who are the people who accept its tenants? Fiat money creators that enslave the public with their hatred for honest money; are the designers of TC. If you support the estate tax, progressive income tax, its graduated increase on greater income and redistribution of wealth; YOU are a TC. Advocates of direct elections for the Presidency (as well as Senators), and the abolishment of the Electoral College; YOU are a TC. Proponents of the UN involvement's that conflict with American interests and impose compliance upon nations that differ with the world community; are TC. Champions of criminalizing more non violent conduct, while applying lenient standards for the political and attorney class; are the creators of TC. Supporters of the Corporate economy, with its designed elimination of small business; is a key element of TC. Accountants that defend insane tax policies that force producers to adopt behavior and decisions that have no economic value, but will reduce tax obligations; are implementers of TC. Whiners that demand special treatment from government at the expense of the rest, are truly TC. Shapers of public images and editors of news that tell only a favorable account of their masters and refuse to speak ill of corrupt political, business and public leaders; are the messengers of TC. Government bureaucrats that live for benefits and pensions, while the policies that they administer destroy the lives of honest citizens; are the foot soldiers of TC. Local elected officials that routinely accept unconstitutional laws from State and Federal departments and courts, and do nothing to challenge their fraud; are subverters for TC goals. Educators who impose an official line for acceptable thought and refuse to debate the merits of contrary views; are the keepers of the TC keys. Tree huggers that force unemployment upon families with their belief in senseless and unscientific theories; are TC members. Civil Rights advocates who's notion of fairness justifies stealing from others to establish equality; are the robbers for TC. Private Property destroyers who rationalize piracy from others for the greater good of themselves or their 'so called' society; are TC thieves. Feminists that promote killing as a 'RIGHT' of woman and seek to cheapen all life as a means to express yourself; are TC harlots. But the most disgusting of all, are the hypocrites who know exactly what TC is, understand that it is indefensible and evil, and continue to advocate it's use upon the sovereign individuals of America; are the worst of all TC's. So by now you may want to know just what TC stands for? Well TC is 'Totalitarian Collectivism'. It is much more dynamic than the guilt and peer pressure tactic of Political Correctness. For force is the operative word in the T. Imposition of penalties and sanctions are the means upon which individuals are compelled to accept the tenants of TC. TC is based upon the power of the State to control people. Their methods are designed to coerce acceptance and mold behavior. The C is the object of the elite's dream of complete dominion. Collectivism encompasses all the ism's that seek to enslave man. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and the current 'Third Wave', are all part of the same scam that has been used to deceive mankind into willingly giving up their individual rights for the false promises, of a dishonest slave master. The correctness in PC is the secular relativism that justifies accepting an erroneous assemblage of political doctrines. While the collectivism in TC is the absolute aim and ultimate goal for the domination of humanity. PC is bad enough, but TC will secure the shackle and chains of despair and suffering, on the vast hordes of humankind. You are urged to start using this term in your writing and conversations and start explaining the threat that really is before us. TC is real and the operative dictum of this age. Our mutual duty is to resist it in any and every form it takes. Our aspiration is to empower the greatest number of individuals to seek and realize the excellent and ability of their talents to achieve wealth, health, meaning and purpose for their life. This goal cannot be realized within a TC culture. The enemy of the human race are the proponents, protectors and defenders of TC. Will you join the crusade against this infidel or are you content to accept the fate that is planned for you? This is one war that we are all involved, one that cannot be escaped or one that cannot be ignored. The destiny of mankind rests upon your decision to resist. __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

03-15-2010, 08:31 PM	#77 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	One Nation, Two Systems: So theory isn't enough. They don't believe our theories. We need to show them that libertarianism works in real life, not just in theory. To do this, we generally appeal to historical examples of societies with successful libertarian policies and institutions. The problem with this approach is that none of these societies was purely libertarian. Each was a mix of libertarian and non-libertarian elements. And so it is open to our libertarian opponents to claim that the positive aspects of those societies were the result of the non-libertarian elements rather than the libertarian ones; instead, the libertarian elements get the blame for the negative aspects. We, of course, respond that they've got things backwards: for example, in discussions of 19th-century America our opponents seek to blame the depredations of the Robber Barons on unfettered capitalism, while giving government intervention on behalf of labor the credit for rising wages — while we, armed with our dusty tomes and dreary charts, insist that unfettered capitalism must be given the credit for rising wages, while blaming the depredations of the Robber Barons on government intervention on behalf of big business.1 __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

03-21-2010, 12:34 AM	#78 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	from Pathetic thread Originally Posted by antichrist Maybe, but liberterians are also against state taxes, yet our taxes are jacked up to support all the druggies in housing, food, medical etc coz they have cooked their brains. They are extremely selfish in self destruction and then expect everything laid on for them. Then the healthy sane ones who have stayed away from the funny stuff have to put up with with the drongos for the rest of our lives. Frankly I don't want to see or hear of them. They should be put on a funny farm and made to feed themselves. Axiom You have now declared yourself officially as a brainwashed socialist fascist collectivist freedom denying gatekeeping zombie . FG, do you have anything to add- I am used to copping a lashing from you as well.

03-23-2010, 06:40 PM	#79 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Are you a libertarian? __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

04-06-2010, 08:07 PM	#80 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Axiomatic Crux Point Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live” Please consider the following : "When so-called “right-wingers” or libertarians merely write letters urging peaceful political change, they are demonized as terrorist hate-mongers, but when greenies openly call for criminal behavior allied with thinly veiled threats of physical violence, it’s no big deal." Why do you think this is , i mean really think ? Well, it clearly shows which ideology really threatens the established-free-range-serf-farmer order . Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live” __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 04-07-2010 at 12:36 AM

04-09-2010, 06:36 PM	#81 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	[quote=Axiom;25594]Greenpeace To Global Warming Skeptics: “We Know Where You Live” Please consider the following : "When so-called “right-wingers” or libertarians merely write letters urging peaceful political change, they are demonized as terrorist hate-mongers, but when greenies openly call for criminal behavior allied with thinly veiled threats of physical violence, it’s no big deal." Why do you think this is , i mean really think ? A/C coz humans have forfeited their place on earth for stuffing the place completely up - do selfish and stupid they are! They have wrecked it for so many other species and cruelly used and abused so many other species. Shame on humanity! Humans are the genocidal freak show on Earth

04-09-2010, 07:31 PM	#82 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Get Real ! Originally Posted by antichrist [ Humans are the genocidal freak show on Earth That is what your free range serf farmers tell you, yes . While they blame you , they continue to poison your air ,food and water supplies as you blissfully cheer on your own destruction . It is possible to deprogram yourself . One way to start is to study psychopathology and ponerology conjunctively . One in a hundred is born a psychopath . And guess what particularly interests them ? Power. Many seek out positions of power . This is just one , but very important piece in revealing 'real reality' (as we call it in the reality analysis business) as opposed to the prescribed programmed faux reality , fed to us from cradle to grave . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 04-10-2010 at 12:01 AM

04-10-2010, 11:20 AM	#83 (permalink)
fastmoves Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 12	I think I'd go with being a socialist but I'd have to go confer to make sure

04-10-2010, 01:36 PM	#84 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Confer On This ! Originally Posted by fastmoves I think I'd go with being a socialist but I'd have to go confer to make sure Well stop being a dupe and become a libertarian ! __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

04-17-2010, 09:44 PM	#85 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Axiom Well stop being a dupe and become a libertarian ! Libertarians dont want to pay taxes but still want to attend hospitals - they are hypocriticial bludgers

04-17-2010, 11:02 PM	#86 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by antichrist Libertarians dont want to pay taxes but still want to attend hospitals - they are hypocriticial bludgers totally incorrect premise , leading to the predictable brainwashed programmed ,uninformed , unthinking conclusion. __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 04-18-2010 at 12:12 AM

04-18-2010, 05:56 PM	#87 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Axiom totally incorrect premise , leading to the predictable brainwashed programmed ,uninformed , unthinking conclusion. Well the ones that I have met certainly don't believe in the state and don't want to pay taxes to such - but they still jump into hospital quick smart esp if having heart attack. And they don't care about international drug company conspiracies then either - they then just swallow those pills like good little Catholic kids swallow the Holy Euchartis

04-18-2010, 06:27 PM	#88 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by antichrist Well the ones that I have met certainly don't believe in the state and don't want to pay taxes to such - but they still jump into hospital quick smart esp if having heart attack. And they don't care about international drug company conspiracies then either - they then just swallow those pills like good little Catholic kids swallow the Holy Euchartis sounds like you've been in the company of faux libertarians , as real libertarians understand the responsibilty that comes with liberty . I advocate a straight flat sales tax on everything , no income tax . This way ensures parity , and fairness for all . I'm also highly suspicious of big pharma . For real libertarians , i refer you to the cato institute and the freeman institute . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

04-27-2010, 09:50 AM	#89 (permalink)
Hayek Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 72	The phrase "real libertarians" doesn't really mean anything though. To you, a certain subset of libertarianism may be "real" and others not, but in reality, there are different levels of libertarianism just as there are different levels of liberalism or conservatism. As someone who does lean libertarian (usually identify myself as paleoconservative,) I still accept the fact that there are left libertarians, not to mention left and right anarchists- both which are more extreme forms of libertarianism. Also, while Cato is great and I too support them, most people would probably call Mises "more" libertarian than them. ( Ludwig von Mises Institute - Homepage if you haven't heard of that institution and want to read more)

04-27-2010, 03:06 PM	#90 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	I seen Cato mentioned for the first time in the mainstream the other day (have no idea what they are about yet), it did not seem complimentary, I think was about militia groups in USA. What is wrong with Aussie brand libtertarianism like we had Aussie-brand commos, like my mate Jack Mundy? The American scene is a bit put-offish to Aussies. Though the same enemies may seem to be out there (if you look hard enough you can see anything)

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