Firegoat7

Everytime you give me an American author talking about the dangers of collective action I picture a redneck patriot, with dated views , pushing the old paranoid cold war communist trip with a slight mixture of 50's nostalgia for the romantic American past that accelerated consumerism.

Why don't you explain how Turner is a collectivist? Because that claim makes absolutely no sense.
1) The club of Rome is hardly a secret society.

2) History has completely discredited eugenics.

3) There is no brainwashed self hating greenie movement because that is a charge of essentialism placed on others by another group of people who are apparently claiming to be libertarians and yet label ALL "GREENIES" brainwashed and self hating. I mean really this sort of stuff is comical. The idea that all greenies believe in Neo Malthusian human population theory is nonsene.

I have studied a fair bit of Green political philosophy and I can tell you that one of the most basic divides between people interested in this stuff is anthropocentricism in relation to the environment. Whilst the second most basic divide is between individual and collective land ownership.

For the record, those that believe in collective ownership of land, tend to believe that humans should be situated within the equation, ie not excluded. Whilst libertarian private ownership people tend to want to protect the environment against humans, especially the poor.

cheers,

__________________
"...What I meant?

Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public.

What they meant?

Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

antichrist

I was always too busy justa runninga da ina and da outa to play cricket but will send them a dono dis arvo. I hope dis dono will not upset FG's or Ax's mob - I have never really got into the intricate politics of who is what?

I like their unique books though. I think Mihail Bukarin(?) "God And State" was my favourite. that book will put hairs on your chest.

Actually I don't think I ever used their dunny rear or otherwise - and don't even know what such facilities they have. I remember now the place was full of white ants or something and they had to do a major reno. It was probably sabotage white-anting by the White Russians for their having Red Russian and Russian anarchist literature And their screen was pre-historic, should have been in a museum.

justaknight

Bakunin you silly old sod! Marx hated his guts but (you wouldn't believe it) he was the only person he trusted to translate Das Kapital in Russian and so it happened! (original translation)!
It was like Bill Gletsos trusting you to translate his NSW Pres report into Arabic!
There was also a mega size blue with Anarchists vs Neo Nazis with Saleam and the "Scul" in his younger days in full uniform. I wasn't there but of what I was told even the cops backed away!
Later on things quietened down a bit but there was a cutie teacher ( I think she was a teacher or a vocational officer) minding the bookshop and the clients started shaving and having an occassional shower. The movement's downfall had begun!

antichrist

Back off Saleam - he is a Lebo! Did you read that SMH feature on him a bit back? His Lebo mates reakon the only thing he lacked was a good swift kick up his backside. And that if it was not for his (illegally maybe under white Aust policy?) grandfathers migration here generations earlier Saleam would not have the resources or time to be racist.

And the Skull copped heaps down the Domain when being racist to a big monster Tongan - the Tongan nearly killed him. Then he was crying to us all battered and bruised as to why we never rescued him.

Also at an anti-nuke demo which the Skull was trying to sabotage us a big burly Russian embassey bouncer bounced him and I never seen the Skull so timid. When faced with someone his same size he acted like a little lamb and not even let out a yell inspite of being kicked a few times. He never asked for help that time though.

Be he was a real hero for attacking little old Chinese women in Belmore Park opposite Central when they walked to Chinatown.

Firegoat7

Hi,

Look Ax you had better respond or I am giving up on you as just another libertarian fan boy without substance.

cheers,

__________________
"...What I meant?

Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public.

What they meant?

Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

Axiom

WARNING TO COLLECTIVISTS: Please don't be an unwitting agent of the Rothschilds .





The New World Order is "Communism"

September 11, 2009
karl-marx-MED.jpg

by Henry Makow, Ph.D.

(This incorporates, revises and updates the essential "Central Bankers Seek Totalitarian Power" from Nov. 2003.)

Most people think Communism is an ideology dedicated to public ownership and championing workers and the poor. This was a simple but incredibly successful ruse which duped hundreds of millions. The ideology appealed to people who want something for nothing- rather a large segment.

Communism is a form of monopoly capitalism with the State fronting for the monopoly capitalists. It's no different from monopoly capitalism in the West except that the State is more totalitarian and more intrusive. This is what we can look forward to.

East or West, Communism is devoted to concentrating all wealth and power in the hands of the central banking cartel (the Rothschilds and their allies) by disguising it as State power. (The State is run by witting & unwitting agents of the Rothschilds. When the USSR dissolved, the national wealth was divided between mostly Jewish "oligarchs" who were fronts for the Rothschilds.)

Any ideology that further concentrates wealth and power in the hands of the "State" is Communism in another guise. These ideologies -- socialism, liberalism, fascism, neo-conservatism, zionism and feminism -- are fronts for "Communism," and are organized and funded by the central banking cartel.

The essence of the New World Order is Communist. Current events are all designed to increase government power. For example, the viruses that the Protocols of Zion mentioned over a hundred years ago, and threaten us now, are designed to force people to vaccinate or quarantine. They are tests to see how much government control people will docilely accept. That's why it's very important to resist vigorously. My hunch is that this is not the big plague but could very well be a dry run. Amazing how the mainstream media is so certain this is going to be serious.

We must ask ourselves why, when America is teetering on financial collapse, Obama would focus his energies on expanding health care? This is like a bankrupt man buying a Mercedes instead of getting a job. My friends say it is a diversion. It certainly fits the pattern of increasing government control.

THE RED SYMPHONY

After The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, The Red Symphony is the best revelation of the real state of our world. "The Red Symphony" is a 1938 Stalinist Secret Police (NKVD) interrogation of Christian Rakovsky, a Soviet ambassador who was a close associate of Leon Trotsky, Rothschild's agent. The text is online or in Des Griffin, Fourth Reich of the Rich.

I introduced this explosive 50-page document to my readers in 2003. It strips the veil from modern history and explains the real meaning of Revolution, Communism, Freemasonry and War. It was not intended to become public knowledge. The translator, a Dr. J. Landowsky, made an unauthorized copy.

The human experiment is endangered by private interests who have usurped the function of money creation everywhere. Modern history reflects the gradual process by which they transfer all wealth and power to themselves, destroying Western Civilization and creating a world police state. In 1938, he could say the whole world is controlled by the Rothschild syndicate of Sabbatean (Illuminati, Masonic) Jewish bankers and their allies.

Rakovsky, whose real name was Chaim Rakover, was sentenced to death in Stalin's purge of the Trotskyite faction of the party. Leon Trotsky wrote in his autobiography, My Life, : "Christian G. Rakovsky... played an active part in the inner workings of four Socialist parties-- the Bulgarian, Russian, French, and Roumanian--to become eventually one of the leaders of the Soviet Federation, a founder of the Communist Internationale, President of the Ukranian Soviet of People's Commissaries, and the diplomatic Soviet representative in England and France ..."

Rakovsky tried to convince his interrogator that the bankers created the Communist state as a "machine of total power" unprecedented in history. In the past, due to many factors, "there was always room for individual freedom. Do you understand that those who already partially rule over nations and worldly governments have pretensions to absolute domination? Understand that this is the only thing which they have not yet reached." (emphasis mine)

A pernicious force paralyzes our national life. Rakovsky identifies it: "Imagine to yourself, if you can a small number of people having unlimited power through the possession of real wealth, and you will see they are the absolute dictators of the stock exchange and [economy]...If you have enough imagination then...you will see [their] anarchical, moral and social influence, i.e. a revolutionary one...Do you now understand?"

"...They created credit money with a view to making its volume close to infinite. And to give it the speed of sound....it is an abstraction, a being of thought, a figure, number, credit, faith...." (pp.245-246)

Of course they need to protect their credit monopoly by translating it into a monopoly over all power and thought. World government is necessary to prevent any country from issuing their own credit (money) or repudiating their debt. This is the New World Order.

MARXISM

The Revolutionary Movement, which defines modern history, was a means to institutionalize banker power by destroying the old order. Marxism, "before being a philosophical, economic and political system, is a conspiracy for the revolution." Rakovsky scoffs at the "elementary Marxism...the demagogic popular one" that is used to dupe the intellectuals and the masses. (238) Marx was hired by Rothschild to dupes the masses. Rakovsky says Marx "laughs in his beard at all humanity." (Griffin, 240) Of course, Marx never mentioned the Roithschilds. (243)

As for Freemasonry: "Every Masonic organization tries to create all the required prerequisites for the triumph of the Communist revolution; this is the obvious aim of Freemasonry," says Rakovsky, a high-ranking Mason himself.

The aim of the Revolution is no less than to redefine reality in terms of the interests of the bankers. This involves the promotion of subjective truth over objective truth. If Lenin "feels something to be real" then it is real. "For him every reality, every truth was relative in the face of the sole and absolute one: the revolution."

In other words, white is black and up is down. This is the way it was in the Soviet Union and this is now happening to us. Truth and justice are being replaced by political diktat. "Political correctness" a Bolshevik term is now in common usage. Physicists like Steven Jones who question Sept.11 are silenced. (The problem with not bringing the 9-11 perps to justice is that they will do it again.) Homosexuality is normalized and promoted to increase arrested development and destroy the family. .

Rakovsky marvels that "the benches on which sat the greasy usurers to trade in their moneys, have now been converted into temples, which stand magnificently at every corner of contemporary big towns with their heathen colonnades, and crowds go there ...to bring assiduously their deposits of all their possessions to the god of money..."

He says the Soviet five-pointed star represents the five Rothschild brothers with their banks, who possess colossal accumulations of wealth, the greatest ever known."

Isn't it strange that Marx never mentions this fact? Rakovsky asks. Isn't it strange that during revolutions, the mobs never attack the bankers, their mansions or banks?

WAR

War is the means by which the central bankers advance their goal of totalitarian world government. Rakovsky says Trotsky was behind the murder of Arch Duke Ferdinand (which sparked WWI.) He recalls the phrase used by the mother of the five Rothschild brothers: "'If my sons want it, then there will be no war.' This means that they were the arbiters, the masters of peace and war, but not emperors. Are you capable of visualizing the fact of such a cosmic importance? Is not war already a revolutionary function? War? The Commune. Since that time every war was a giant step towards Communism."

After the murder of [Illuminati member Weimar Foreign Minister] Walter Rathenau in 1922, the Illuminati give political or financial positions only to intermediaries, Rakowsky says. "Obviously to persons who are trustworthy and loyal, which can be guaranteed a thousand ways: thus one can assert that those bankers and politicians [in the public eye] - are only men of straw . . . even though they occupy very high places and are made to appear to be the authors of the plans which are carried out." Think Barack Obama.

In 1938, Rakovsky outlined three reasons for the upcoming Second World War. The first is that Hitler began to print his own money. "This is very serious. Much more than all the external and cruel factors in National-Socialism."

Secondly, the "fully developed nationalism of Western Europe is an obstacle to Marxism...the need for the destruction of nationalism is alone worth a war in Europe."

Finally, Communism cannot triumph unless it suppresses the "still living Christianity." He refers to the "permanent revolution" as dating from the birth of Christ, and the reformation as "its first partial victory" because it split Christianity. This suggests that the "conspiracy" also contains a racial or religious factor.

"In reality, Christianity is our only real enemy since all the political and economic phenomena of the Bourgeois States. Christianity controlling the individual is capable of annulling the revolutionary projection of the neutral Soviet or Atheist State."

Now the Central Bankers are promoting World War Three as in "The Clash of Civilizations." Substitute Islam for Christianity above, and pit "Christians" against them.

NEW CONCLUSION

The New World Order does not only create a new power. It creates a new reality out of touch with the truth. It employs legions of pundits, professors and politicos to enforce its precepts. These are the argentur ("agents") referred to smugly in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
What kind of credibility do these people have knowing they will lose their jobs if they tell the truth? They are all accomplices in the 9-11 cover-up,

The truth is that society is totally subverted. Government, education, entertainment and the news media are totally in the hands of the central banking cartel. The private sector all sings from the same song book, indicating the central bankers control it. The same applies to think tanks, foundations, NGO's, professional associations and major charities. Intelligence agencies report to the central bankers. They and Masonic secret societies are a central part of the mechanism of control.

This article "How the Fed Bought the Economics Profession" is the template for all professions.

As a result, society is helpless to address its real problem: the untenable concentration of wealth, power and cultural influence in the hands of Cabala-believing bankers secretly intent on culling, degrading and enslaving us. We are stymied by the bogus charge of "anti-Semitism" when most Jews are deceived and manipulated like everyone else,(although their role is vastly disproportionate.) There is no shortage of lackeys from all ethnic backgrounds willing to serve these Satanist bankers. This service defines "success" today.

"History" is a lie. Wars are a fraud. Current events are largely orchestrated. Projects are ventured for different purposes than stated. All we can do is continue to throw a spanner in their works and alert our fellow citizens. I am not too concerned with catastrophe. I see continued gradual drift to one world order fascism. Mankind is being put into a coma, a state of arrested development based on a fixation with toys, sports, relationships, sex and money. The last thing the bankers want to do is awaken the cattle from their slumber.

Mankind is doomed as long as Cabalist central bankers control society. All that is needed is to nationalize the central banks, repudiate debts created from nothing by these bankers, break up cartels, especially Hollywood and the media, and institute strict public campaign financing.

But as long as the majority perceive their interests in terms of the status quo, our problems will remain systemic. They won't go away.

---
Barney Frank-"We are trying on every front to increase the role of government."
RealClearPolitics - Video - Frank: "We Are Trying On Every Front To Increase The Role Of Government"

__________________
"Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

Axiom

That response is sadly very typical of the mass leftist collectivist brainwashing .
When you learn who was/is really behind communistic govts ie. globalist elite bankers you will hopefully reconsider your whole programming.

“Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite,” wrote the late Gary Allen. “If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs.” ...FROM THE MEDIA THREAD

Did i say turner was a collectivist ? Did anyone? He is just an example of self human hating so common amongst collectivists.(see the nexus between the ultra wealthy and leftist collectivism ?)
Where was it stated it was ?
And you know full well its role like other globalist institutions is virtually ignored by media,culture and academia...hmmm...wonder why.

What ???
the philosophy of eugenics is very much alive and well within the hallowed halls of the elite and their unwitting dupes , the lefty,collectivists.
(see prof. eric pianka for instance , and the subliminal enemy of the earth , the co2 exhaling humans !))

Where did i say all greenies , i just alluded to its pervasiveness amongst that group.

There never will be a free collective without attending to the liberty of it's individuals .
Academia and universities teach only that which is suitable to the elite ( research who sets up and funds them !) no surprise then to see the collectivist ideology so prevalent in these institutions !

__________________
"Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

Axiom

The Phony Radicalism of Michael Moore

Sheldon Richman
Campaign For Liberty
Saturday, Oct 31st, 2009

With phony radicals like Michael Moore around, the ruling elite has nothing to worry about.

The filmmaker likes to pose as a radical critic of the status quo, but he isn’t. All the evidence you need is in his latest documentary, Capitalism: A Love Story. Sure, he rails against home foreclosures, bank bailouts, low wages, other real and imagined problems, but his solution would not disturb the sleep of any big banker, corporate bigwig, or political big shot.

The tip off comes right at the beginning of the movie. He paints an idyllic picture of life in America in the 1950s. His father worked for a big auto company, through which the family got free medical and dental care. All was well. He realizes that a major reason things were so good was that the U.S. military had destroyed Japan’s and Germany’s competitive industrial bases in World War II. But the dominance was great while it lasted. It was a time when an alliance of big government, big business, and big labor ruled the roost. The military-industrial complex was thriving. That seems fine with Moore, which puts him in the camp of the corporatists of Franklin Roosevelt’s Brain Trust, who thought free markets and competition among independent firms were passé. The new world required big monolithic entities that sat down together and worked things out nicely. The spirit of Mussolini hovered over all of it.

Of course, Moore blasts Wall Street because it got all that taxpayer bailout money and is not being held accountable for it. That is worth getting mad about. But how would he feel if the money had been given with lots of conditions and regulations? He might have liked that.



He certainly doesn’t mind that the government had the taxpayers’ money to give away in the first place. He never once suggests that the people should keep their own money because the political elite has no right to it. He also never indicts the Federal Reserve for its legal counterfeiting. That would be the true radical position. Moore sides with the politicians. He even complains that the top income-tax rate was lowered from 90 percent some years ago! Conveniently, he gets the history wrong. He says Republican Ronald Reagan cut the 90 percent rate, but it was really Democrat Lyndon Johnson who did it, following through on John Kennedy’s proposal. (Reagan presided over a cut from 70 to 50 and then to 28 percent.) At any rate, he is perfectly comfortable with government’s taking 90 percent of people’s earnings. He seems indifferent about whether the money is made through honest trade or political privilege.

Favoring a high top rate may not win him favors from some in the establishment, but for generations there has been a wing of that establishment that understood that high marginal rates were the price of the lucrative corporate state. So Moore may not be the pariah among the ruling elite that he makes himself out to be.

Moore’s movie contains much else to make us doubt his radical bona fides. He blusters about Robert Rubin, Timothy Geithner, Lawrence Summers, and their relationship to the current financial problems. Rubin, a Wall Street hotshot, and Summers were Treasury secretaries under President Bill Clinton. Geithner ran the New York Federal Reserve Bank from late 2003 to 2009, overseeing the Wall Street bailouts. In Moore’s eyes, they are the rogues who, along with former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan and former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, gave us the meltdown of 2008.

So far so good. But when he gets to the election of Barack Obama in November 2008 he declares, “This is not what Wall Street wanted.” Yeah? Then why are Moore’s bêtes noires Rubin and Summers close Obama economic advisors, and why is Geithner secretary of the Treasury?

A true radical would not have given Obama a pass. Moore says he’s for socialism, but all he means by that is that workers have some say in their companies. Nothing very radical about that.

If Moore were truly a radical critic of capitalism as he conceives it, he’d be for its true opposite: the radical separation of business and State — that is, the free market

__________________
"Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

hobsonbay player

Only creep is you most people never repond to your nonsense except
firegoat . l know AO pretends to like you but just tolerate you just to
stop your whinging. Till you admit you have a problem your problems will
get deeper .Facts are SCT doesnt exist only in your head no evidence
to back up your claims only flashbacks .Thats why its hard take anything
on face value what you say . l just wish you luck in getting some
treatment such as ( medication ) and support in future .

antichrist

how rude and unnecessary. Whole religions are based on stupidity, at least SCT may exist, is not beyond possibilities. I love his stories, so original.

Just2Good

And what would you have us believe?

__________________
.
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

~ Buckminster Fuller ~

Axiom

reserve judgement ?

__________________
"Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

Iconoclast

So much hate. Turn down the hate. There is no need for it. Ax is fine and hate mail to the locals is not what we expect around here.

__________________
The individual is hopeless without the group.
The group is hopeless without its individuals.

hobsonbay player

AX and l dont see eye to eye on things we had fall out
He used some seriously language on me so lam not going sit back and let
him get away with it . BTW aint you one of those long list of people who were banned at
CC and you are telling me to tone hate down .Your track record not
something to sneeze at . Before you cast any judgements do some
homework first maybe you'll understand why put that up !

Iconoclast

Yes I am.

I am not banning you.

Axiom might be annoying to you, however, my relationship with CC is intractable ...

CC is a despotic zone with a large number of grieffers would really should suicide for the sake of Australian chess. Axiom may annoy you, but those creeps at CC are insufferable liars, contemptible bullies, slimy cowards and worst of all dragging their stench over here.

So, tone down the agro to the level down from 6/10 to 2/10.

__________________
The individual is hopeless without the group.
The group is hopeless without its individuals.