Andrew Johns Drugs Use - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 09-02-2007, 08:38 PM

Johns took the money that came with fame from his sports ability. That money comes from a marketing machine that insists that the players be good role models.

First he lied and lied and lied some more, then lied again before he lied, for years and years for millions and millions of dollars:
to the people who trusted him,
to the fans,
to the promoters,
to code,
to the kiddies,
to everyone who matters.

Next, he has an attck of the guilts. Boo hoo. He fesses up publically to the entire universe. This selfish action schits on:
the people who trusted him,
the fans,
the promotors,
the code,
the kiddies
everyone who matters.

Why did he have to go public now. He could have said nothing for 20 years and then said something. By fessing up to his abject money grubbing lies deceit, he has sent the clear messages that:
trust is foolish,
fans are to be hoodwinked,
promotors are to be stolen from,
the code is to be mocked,
kiddies moral education does not matter,
everyone is there to be used to advance your own selfish ends.

Johns, you are the lowest sociopathic piece of excrement in Australian sport. You are filth, yet less than nothing.

ICONOCLAST

**Euro-Chess** · 09-02-2007, 08:45 PM

Who is Johns? What did he do to make you so mad?

**Iconoclast** · 09-02-2007, 10:51 PM

For a story to make you furious, click here.

**Arrogant-One** · 09-03-2007, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Johns took the money that came with fame from his sports ability.

So what? He had enough talent that someone was willing to pay him to play.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

That money comes from a marketing machine that insists that the players be good role models.

Perhaps it does.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

First he lied and lied and lied some more, then lied again before he lied, for years and years for millions and millions of dollars:
to the people who trusted him,
to the fans,
to the promoters,
to code,
to the kiddies,
to everyone who matters.

This is nonsense. He was addicted and to a large extent an addiction is a medical condition that he had limited control over.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Next, he has an attck of the guilts. Boo hoo. He fesses up publically to the entire universe.

Maybe is was wanting to turn over a new leaf. I won't hold that against him.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

This selfish action schits on:
the people who trusted him,
the fans,
the promotors,
the code,
the kiddies
everyone who matters.

Admitting he has a problem does not mean he let down his fans. His drug use may have, but everyone makes mistakes. Thats why pencils have erasers.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Why did he have to go public now.

He didn't, but again maybe he wanted to turn over a new leaf and make a clean break from his mistakes and past behaviour.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

He could have said nothing for 20 years and then said something.

Yeah, but that course would have made it harder for him to make a clean break - guilt free. The first step to solving his problem is admitting that he has one

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

By fessing up to his abject money grubbing lies deceit, he has sent the clear messages that:
trust is foolish,

I do not agree

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

... fans are to be hoodwinked,

Fans are under no misconception that some professional athletes use drugs. FIDE even tests chess players for drug use during the Olympiad. Obviously because they fear drug use is a problem even for the sport of chess.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

...promotors are to be stolen from,

Promoters got their monies worth from Andrew Johns, they are in no position to complain.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

... the code is to be mocked,

He broke it, he didn't mock it. That is not a distinction without a difference

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

... kiddies moral education does not matter,

Kids should not look to pro sports to establish their moral boundaries. It is the responsibility of their parents to teach them.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

... everyone is there to be used to advance your own selfish ends.

He didn't use anyone, his actions were self injurious. He admitted to the world that he had a problem. Nobody is perfect.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Johns, you are the lowest sociopathic piece of excrement in Australian sport. You are filth, yet less than nothing.

This kind of language doesn't belong on this board, but thats an aside from the fact that I am not willing to kick a man when he is down or when he has done the right thing after stuffing up. Johns telling the world about his problem wasn't easy, and while many may be disappointed about it, if they are really his fans they will wish him well in his efforts to get rehabilitated.

Gendo Ikari · 09-03-2007, 06:29 PM

A. Johns has contributed a lot to Rugby League, so to call him filth is excessive. The drugs he took were recreational as opposed to performance enhancing right? There is not only pressure to perform but also the pressure of being a celebrity - he made the wrong choices in coping with that pressure and went under the radar whilst playing. The AFL has introduced extra testing for recreational drugs after the Ben Cousins affair, so perhaps the NRL should do also to further discourage players to deal with problems via drug use. It would be great if Johns was supportive of such measures, I think he would be.

**Iconoclast** · 09-03-2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

So what? He had enough talent that someone was willing to pay him to play.

But he lied about what he was delivering. The promoters wanted a clean role model and they did not get it. Johns is a liar and took the money under fraudulant circumstances.

He was addicted and to a large extent an addiction is a medical condition that he had limited control over.

OK, he was addicted. He knew he was and should have said so there and then and got out of the game until he got clean. But he did not. He lied so that he could keep the money and/or the fame. Either way, it was a lying selfish act.

Maybe is was wanting to turn over a new leaf. I won't hold that against him.

I will. Why? Because he could have done it quietly. but didn't.

Admitting he has a problem does not mean he let down his fans. His drug use may have, but everyone makes mistakes.

Of course he let down his fans. He was up there pretending to be a great guy and role model. All the while he was a money grubbing hypercrit who lied to everyone.

Thats why pencils have erasers.

This is not a spelling error. This is fraud. This is a dispicable and intentional campeign to conceil illegal behaviour that is not tolerated by the majority of fans and parents.

Yeah, but that course would have made it harder for him to make a clean break - guilt free. The first step to solving his problem is admitting that he has one.

Yep, he admitted that years and years ago to his doctor. Why, now, does he have to do it publically. He is a stupid selfish bastard who should have kept it quie. Iinstead he has ruined 20 years of anti-drug programs. by showing how drugs are OK as long as you can avoid being caught.

Fans are under no misconception that some professional athletes use drugs.

Which fans would they be? The 10 year olds or the world wise adults. Which of these fans are the ones that can deal with a professional being a cynical liar. Which of these fans is being molded by what they see the great players do? Gimme a break. Johns has done untold damage to the most vulnerable group.

Promoters got their monies worth from Andrew Johns, they are in no position to complain.

Except that the all the work put into making him an "endorsement horse" is totally buggered.

He broke it, he didn't mock it. That is not a distinction without a difference.

Every time he took the field it was a deliberate act that was itself a mockery of the clean code image.

Kids should not look to pro sports to establish their moral boundaries. It is the responsibility of their parents to teach them.

Parents establish the boundries up to about 12 years of age. Then the peer groups and media begin to over shaddow the home rules. Johns has damaged so much good work done by parents. He is below contempt.

He didn't use anyone, his actions were self injurious.

He hurt society. He hurt himself too, but that that second fact does not absolve him from his crimes.

He admitted to the world that he had a problem. Nobody is perfect.

I am not asking for perfection. I am asking for reasonable behaviour. selfishly taking the money for years and then trashing the whole shebang is vandalism of the society at large.

This kind of language doesn't belong on this board,

OK, reword it for me and try to convey the same utter contempt I have for Johns.

I am not willing to kick a man when he is down

He is not down. He was down. Now he is a self absorbed twerp who should be pilloried for a decade.

or when he has done the right thing after stuffing up.

He did the wrong thing by fessing up publically.

Johns telling the world about his problem wasn't easy,

I don't care AND it is irrelavent. He is a selfish liar.

if they are really his fans they will wish him well in his efforts to get rehabilitated.

I do not wish him well.

**Iconoclast** · 09-03-2007, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari

A. Johns has contributed a lot to Rugby League, so to call him filth is excessive.

If Johns had never been born and never played, ARL would be no worse off today and would probably be better off. Johns is filth, and it is not excessive to call a spade a spade.

**Arrogant-One** · 09-03-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

If Johns had never been born and never played, ARL would be no worse off today and would probably be better off. Johns is filth, and it is not excessive to call a spade a spade.

Okay,

I won't continue to defend him, but I think we mustn't over react either. Maybe some kids who were fans felt betrayed by his drug use revelation.

When I go to a rugby game I pay the ticket price. I don't pay for 'role models' I can look up to, I pay to watch talented athletes ply their trade. Johns has at least perfomed that with dignity.

His personal life might be relevant to some people, like yourself, but I am largely indifferent to it.

**Fischer-Fan** · 09-03-2007, 09:59 PM

Maybe if the league had done a better job of testing for drugs he wouldn't have used them for so long. But just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you should use drugs.

**Egor** · 09-09-2007, 12:58 AM

Iconoclast,
You seem to me to be contradicting yourself?
1. Johns is wrong for taking drugs and hiding it for all these years.
2. Johns is wrong for coming out and publicly confessing to taking drugs and hiding it for all these years.

I can see the negatived side to a public confession like the one Johns has made, but I cannot see how it is right to suggest that he should keep on lying until the impact of the confession is minimalised? Should the truth only be told when it doesn't hurt anybody?

**Arrogant-One** · 09-09-2007, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Egor

Iconoclast,
You seem to me to be contradicting yourself?
1. Johns is wrong for taking drugs and hiding it for all these years.
2. Johns is wrong for coming out and publicly confessing to taking drugs and hiding it for all these years.

I can see the negatived side to a public confession like the one Johns has made, but I cannot see how it is right to suggest that he should keep on lying until the impact of the confession is minimalised? Should the truth only be told when it doesn't hurt anybody?

I think he was just saying that Johns was bad because he took drugs and was a hero and role model for children, and that by revealing he took drugs, he shattered the role model image.

But I don't know if that is what he is saying for sure.

AO

**Egor** · 09-10-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

I think he was just saying that Johns was bad because he took drugs and was a hero and role model for children, and that by revealing he took drugs, he shattered the role model image.

But I don't know if that is what he is saying for sure.

AO

Let's hope he can clear things up.:confused:

**Watto** · 09-10-2007, 11:34 AM

Did Johns actively promote an anti-recreational drugs message during his career?

**Iconoclast** · 09-10-2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Watto

Did Johns actively promote an anti-recreational drugs message during his career?

I do not know the answer to that. However, the ARL are always promoting their code as wholesome family stuff. If Johns accepts money being shovelled into his pockets from the ARL and its clubs, then he is morally compelled to tow the line.

BTW, lest others think that I am an anti-drug zealot, I must say I am not saying anything at all about recreational drugs. Nor am I saying anthing about drug addiction or self medication by the mentally ill or mentally disordered. I am only kicking Johns because of his greedy selfish actions in taking ther money (barrows of it) and not providing the product (a role model.)

**Arrogant-One** · 09-10-2007, 06:35 PM

I must say I am disappointed to hear Marion and Cousins are now tainted in the drugs debate. I am starting to think Matt might have good cause to give them a piece of his mind. But that said, Cousins might not have been caught out, apparently he only had a $20 note with traces of ecstasy - a bit flimsy and it can't be proven that the drug originated on the $20 note in his possession.

09-02-2007, 08:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Andrew Johns Drugs Use Johns took the money that came with fame from his sports ability. That money comes from a marketing machine that insists that the players be good role models. First he lied and lied and lied some more, then lied again before he lied, for years and years for millions and millions of dollars: to the people who trusted him, to the fans, to the promoters, to code, to the kiddies, to everyone who matters. Next, he has an attck of the guilts. Boo hoo. He fesses up publically to the entire universe. This selfish action schits on: the people who trusted him, the fans, the promotors, the code, the kiddies everyone who matters. Why did he have to go public now. He could have said nothing for 20 years and then said something. By fessing up to his abject money grubbing lies deceit, he has sent the clear messages that: trust is foolish, fans are to be hoodwinked, promotors are to be stolen from, the code is to be mocked, kiddies moral education does not matter, everyone is there to be used to advance your own selfish ends. Johns, you are the lowest sociopathic piece of excrement in Australian sport. You are filth, yet less than nothing. ICONOCLAST

09-03-2007, 01:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Give Andrews a break Originally Posted by Iconoclast Johns took the money that came with fame from his sports ability. So what? He had enough talent that someone was willing to pay him to play. Originally Posted by Iconoclast That money comes from a marketing machine that insists that the players be good role models. Perhaps it does. Originally Posted by Iconoclast First he lied and lied and lied some more, then lied again before he lied, for years and years for millions and millions of dollars: to the people who trusted him, to the fans, to the promoters, to code, to the kiddies, to everyone who matters. This is nonsense. He was addicted and to a large extent an addiction is a medical condition that he had limited control over. Originally Posted by Iconoclast Next, he has an attck of the guilts. Boo hoo. He fesses up publically to the entire universe. Maybe is was wanting to turn over a new leaf. I won't hold that against him. Originally Posted by Iconoclast This selfish action schits on: the people who trusted him, the fans, the promotors, the code, the kiddies everyone who matters. Admitting he has a problem does not mean he let down his fans. His drug use may have, but everyone makes mistakes. Thats why pencils have erasers. Originally Posted by Iconoclast Why did he have to go public now. He didn't, but again maybe he wanted to turn over a new leaf and make a clean break from his mistakes and past behaviour. Originally Posted by Iconoclast He could have said nothing for 20 years and then said something. Yeah, but that course would have made it harder for him to make a clean break - guilt free. The first step to solving his problem is admitting that he has one Originally Posted by Iconoclast By fessing up to his abject money grubbing lies deceit, he has sent the clear messages that: trust is foolish, I do not agree Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... fans are to be hoodwinked, Fans are under no misconception that some professional athletes use drugs. FIDE even tests chess players for drug use during the Olympiad. Obviously because they fear drug use is a problem even for the sport of chess. Originally Posted by Iconoclast ...promotors are to be stolen from, Promoters got their monies worth from Andrew Johns, they are in no position to complain. Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... the code is to be mocked, He broke it, he didn't mock it. That is not a distinction without a difference Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... kiddies moral education does not matter, Kids should not look to pro sports to establish their moral boundaries. It is the responsibility of their parents to teach them. Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... everyone is there to be used to advance your own selfish ends. He didn't use anyone, his actions were self injurious. He admitted to the world that he had a problem. Nobody is perfect. Originally Posted by Iconoclast Johns, you are the lowest sociopathic piece of excrement in Australian sport. You are filth, yet less than nothing. This kind of language doesn't belong on this board, but thats an aside from the fact that I am not willing to kick a man when he is down or when he has done the right thing after stuffing up. Johns telling the world about his problem wasn't easy, and while many may be disappointed about it, if they are really his fans they will wish him well in his efforts to get rehabilitated. __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

09-03-2007, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One So what? He had enough talent that someone was willing to pay him to play. But he lied about what he was delivering. The promoters wanted a clean role model and they did not get it. Johns is a liar and took the money under fraudulant circumstances. He was addicted and to a large extent an addiction is a medical condition that he had limited control over. OK, he was addicted. He knew he was and should have said so there and then and got out of the game until he got clean. But he did not. He lied so that he could keep the money and/or the fame. Either way, it was a lying selfish act. Maybe is was wanting to turn over a new leaf. I won't hold that against him. I will. Why? Because he could have done it quietly. but didn't. Admitting he has a problem does not mean he let down his fans. His drug use may have, but everyone makes mistakes. Of course he let down his fans. He was up there pretending to be a great guy and role model. All the while he was a money grubbing hypercrit who lied to everyone. Thats why pencils have erasers. This is not a spelling error. This is fraud. This is a dispicable and intentional campeign to conceil illegal behaviour that is not tolerated by the majority of fans and parents. Yeah, but that course would have made it harder for him to make a clean break - guilt free. The first step to solving his problem is admitting that he has one. Yep, he admitted that years and years ago to his doctor. Why, now, does he have to do it publically. He is a stupid selfish bastard who should have kept it quie. Iinstead he has ruined 20 years of anti-drug programs. by showing how drugs are OK as long as you can avoid being caught. Fans are under no misconception that some professional athletes use drugs. Which fans would they be? The 10 year olds or the world wise adults. Which of these fans are the ones that can deal with a professional being a cynical liar. Which of these fans is being molded by what they see the great players do? Gimme a break. Johns has done untold damage to the most vulnerable group. Promoters got their monies worth from Andrew Johns, they are in no position to complain. Except that the all the work put into making him an "endorsement horse" is totally buggered. He broke it, he didn't mock it. That is not a distinction without a difference. Every time he took the field it was a deliberate act that was itself a mockery of the clean code image. Kids should not look to pro sports to establish their moral boundaries. It is the responsibility of their parents to teach them. Parents establish the boundries up to about 12 years of age. Then the peer groups and media begin to over shaddow the home rules. Johns has damaged so much good work done by parents. He is below contempt. He didn't use anyone, his actions were self injurious. He hurt society. He hurt himself too, but that that second fact does not absolve him from his crimes. He admitted to the world that he had a problem. Nobody is perfect. I am not asking for perfection. I am asking for reasonable behaviour. selfishly taking the money for years and then trashing the whole shebang is vandalism of the society at large. This kind of language doesn't belong on this board, OK, reword it for me and try to convey the same utter contempt I have for Johns. I am not willing to kick a man when he is down He is not down. He was down. Now he is a self absorbed twerp who should be pilloried for a decade. or when he has done the right thing after stuffing up. He did the wrong thing by fessing up publically. Johns telling the world about his problem wasn't easy, I don't care AND it is irrelavent. He is a selfish liar. if they are really his fans they will wish him well in his efforts to get rehabilitated. I do not wish him well.

09-03-2007, 07:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari A. Johns has contributed a lot to Rugby League, so to call him filth is excessive. If Johns had never been born and never played, ARL would be no worse off today and would probably be better off. Johns is filth, and it is not excessive to call a spade a spade.

09-03-2007, 07:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast If Johns had never been born and never played, ARL would be no worse off today and would probably be better off. Johns is filth, and it is not excessive to call a spade a spade. Okay, I won't continue to defend him, but I think we mustn't over react either. Maybe some kids who were fans felt betrayed by his drug use revelation. When I go to a rugby game I pay the ticket price. I don't pay for 'role models' I can look up to, I pay to watch talented athletes ply their trade. Johns has at least perfomed that with dignity. His personal life might be relevant to some people, like yourself, but I am largely indifferent to it. __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

09-02-2007, 08:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	Who is Johns? What did he do to make you so mad?

09-02-2007, 10:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	For a story to make you furious, click here.

09-03-2007, 06:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 100	A. Johns has contributed a lot to Rugby League, so to call him filth is excessive. The drugs he took were recreational as opposed to performance enhancing right? There is not only pressure to perform but also the pressure of being a celebrity - he made the wrong choices in coping with that pressure and went under the radar whilst playing. The AFL has introduced extra testing for recreational drugs after the Ben Cousins affair, so perhaps the NRL should do also to further discourage players to deal with problems via drug use. It would be great if Johns was supportive of such measures, I think he would be.

09-03-2007, 09:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 147	Maybe if the league had done a better job of testing for drugs he wouldn't have used them for so long. But just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you should use drugs. __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer

09-09-2007, 12:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
Egor Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 49	I'm confused? Iconoclast, You seem to me to be contradicting yourself? 1. Johns is wrong for taking drugs and hiding it for all these years. 2. Johns is wrong for coming out and publicly confessing to taking drugs and hiding it for all these years. I can see the negatived side to a public confession like the one Johns has made, but I cannot see how it is right to suggest that he should keep on lying until the impact of the confession is minimalised? Should the truth only be told when it doesn't hurt anybody?

09-09-2007, 01:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Egor Iconoclast, You seem to me to be contradicting yourself? 1. Johns is wrong for taking drugs and hiding it for all these years. 2. Johns is wrong for coming out and publicly confessing to taking drugs and hiding it for all these years. I can see the negatived side to a public confession like the one Johns has made, but I cannot see how it is right to suggest that he should keep on lying until the impact of the confession is minimalised? Should the truth only be told when it doesn't hurt anybody? I think he was just saying that Johns was bad because he took drugs and was a hero and role model for children, and that by revealing he took drugs, he shattered the role model image. But I don't know if that is what he is saying for sure. AO __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

09-10-2007, 10:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
Egor Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 49	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One I think he was just saying that Johns was bad because he took drugs and was a hero and role model for children, and that by revealing he took drugs, he shattered the role model image. But I don't know if that is what he is saying for sure. AO Let's hope he can clear things up.:confused:

09-10-2007, 11:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
Watto Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 16	Did Johns actively promote an anti-recreational drugs message during his career?

09-10-2007, 06:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Watto Did Johns actively promote an anti-recreational drugs message during his career? I do not know the answer to that. However, the ARL are always promoting their code as wholesome family stuff. If Johns accepts money being shovelled into his pockets from the ARL and its clubs, then he is morally compelled to tow the line. BTW, lest others think that I am an anti-drug zealot, I must say I am not saying anything at all about recreational drugs. Nor am I saying anthing about drug addiction or self medication by the mentally ill or mentally disordered. I am only kicking Johns because of his greedy selfish actions in taking ther money (barrows of it) and not providing the product (a role model.)

09-10-2007, 06:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	I must say I am disappointed to hear Marion and Cousins are now tainted in the drugs debate. I am starting to think Matt might have good cause to give them a piece of his mind. But that said, Cousins might not have been caught out, apparently he only had a $20 note with traces of ecstasy - a bit flimsy and it can't be proven that the drug originated on the $20 note in his possession. __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: