Federal Elections - OzChess

Gendo Ikari · 08-07-2007, 07:25 PM

I'm sure the date will be announced soon.. I think Peter Costello said 'not September and not November'... who will win and will it be close or not?

**Arrogant-One** · 08-07-2007, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari

I'm sure the date will be announced soon.. I think Peter Costello said 'not September and not November'... who will win and will it be close or not?

In a way the Coalition winning a Senate majority really stuffed them. It allowed the IR changes to go through, which in turn soured public opinion against them. Howard was seen to be doing a good job up to that point.

But apart from that 10 years seems to be the shelf life of any federal government regardless of persuasion.

The Coalition's only hope to take government within the next 6 years will be to allow Malcolm Turnbull to take over as Leader of the Opposition when they lose.

I suspect the writing is on the wall for the Howard Government, and Rudd will win handily.

The only good news is that when Labor forms government, the economy should go into the toilet, and that in turn should cool the housing market.

**Uki** · 08-12-2007, 10:22 PM

He will possibly toss another baby overboard. AO knows that you cannot trust anyone with the name Howard.

**Arrogant-One** · 08-13-2007, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Uki

He will possibly toss another baby overboard. AO knows that you cannot trust anyone with the name Howard.

I've also learned that people named Kevin can pose issues of their own!

Please see picture below for referencing purposes -

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2007, 08:05 PM

It is a little known fact that since WWII, there has been no correlation between the left/right inclination of democratic governments world wide and the rate of economic growth in their nations. It is the level of democracy that matters to growth, not the level government intervention in the economy. Therefore, if you - AO - are thinking that a Kevin Rudd lead ALP will send us down the toilet I think you may be expressing a commonly held and incorrect view, that leftists are bad for the economy.

**Bill Powell** · 08-13-2007, 09:55 PM

Kevin Rudd comes from the Sunshine Coast, Qld. He and his Family are well respected in this area.
He come from a poor working family, attended School at Nambour Public School.
Kevin is more with it then John Howard and knows what it was like to be poor.

**Arrogant-One** · 08-13-2007, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Powell

Kevin Rudd comes from the Sunshine Coast, Qld. He and his Family are well respected in this area.
He come from a poor working family, attended School at Nambour Public School.
Kevin is more with it then John Howard and knows what it was like to be poor.

Indeed,

I know a couple good people from the Sunshine Coast. That's why I hope there will be a Caloundra Open this year.

In my post above I was actually referring to a different Kevin (not Rudd) and trying to be cute. But in reality I really don't care who wins the election because it makes very little difference to my life.

AO

Gendo Ikari · 08-24-2007, 08:34 PM

Since it was revealed Kevin Rudd visited a strip club, I noticed a poll on the ninemsn site 'Will this incident change your vote?'

The story attracted something like 2000 comments but what I found interesting is how it would change someone's vote - one might assume it to be a negative but perhaps many people would change their vote in favour of Rudd if they perceive him to identify more with the average Australian. I'm reminded of Bob Hawke's popularity in relation to the world record he held for speedy beer-drinking.

**Chessic-Adventures** · 10-21-2007, 12:22 AM

So Rudd and company are now not as far ahead in the polls. Maybe if they stopped pretending to be the Coalition with a fresh face they would still be miles ahead. The latest tax policy announcement by Labor was a pathetic joke, basically exactly the same as Howard's. I guess they needed Howard to release it first so that they would have a model to work off of.

Its sad because the Howard government has been so complacent on so many issue, and has the stupidest foreign policy position I have ever seen, an IR policy which is clearly bad for workers, and no worthwhile environmental policy - and they are still in contention because Labor isn't taking advantage of the position.

Its like the eunuch who went to the brothel but didn't know what to do when he got there.

**MOZ** · 10-21-2007, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures

So Rudd and company are now not as far ahead in the polls. Maybe if they stopped pretending to be the Coalition with a fresh face they would still be miles ahead. The latest tax policy announcement by Labor was a pathetic joke, basically exactly the same as Howard's. I guess they needed Howard to release it first so that they would have a model to work off of.

Its sad because the Howard government has been so complacent on so many issue, and has the stupidest foreign policy position I have ever seen, an IR policy which is clearly bad for workers, and no worthwhile environmental policy - and they are still in contention because Labor isn't taking advantage of the position.

Its like the eunuch who went to the brothel but didn't know what to do when he got there.

Well, he (Rudd) got so far ahead right from the start that the margin must have validated the early strategy. And possibly that early strategy was
> small target
> nose clean
> one winnable big issue.
It was the strategy Howard used to defeat the unpopular Keating in 1996.

I guess there would be a huge reluctance to vary from that Rudd strategy now. And 1 week of backward steps is not panic point.

I read your comments with interest.

MOZ

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 11:17 AM

I do not want tax cuts.

I want:
More healthcare employees in preventitive medicine.
More eductional/training opportunities for all.
No pokies.
No 4WD imports.
Our own nuclear weapons.
Life sentances for white collar scum - (keep the no death sentences policy.)

Wish list:
Election promises held classed as binding legal cantracts between Government and People.
Less privacy - open searches on all, by all, at the ATO, police records et cetara.
Voting rights for children - cast by proxy by parents.
Minimum age for a parliamentry seat, 60 years old.

**MOZ** · 10-21-2007, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I do not want tax cuts.

I want:
More healthcare employees in preventitive medicine.
More eductional/training opportunities for all.
No pokies.
No 4WD imports.
Our own nuclear weapons.
Life sentances for white collar scum - (keep the no death sentences policy.)

Wish list:
Election promises held classed as binding legal cantracts between Government and People.
Less privacy - open searches on all, by all, at the ATO, police records et cetara.
Voting rights for children - cast by proxy by parents.
Minimum age for a parliamentry seat, 60 years old.

^

I guess that means that you will not be voting for the incumbents.

That seems to be the only certainty.
All other voting options have a lowish chance of satisfying your wish-list. But at least those chances are non-zero.

Btw...did ya mean minimum in the final sentence?

MOZ

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

^Btw...did ya mean minimum in the final sentence?

Yep.
Young people are too naive.
Middle aged people have too much self interest.
Older folk have experience and nothing to lose.

With an older age limit, you cannot get career politicians who have to look to the next election. Also, people nearing the end of their normal working age are only going to go into politics if they still want to "make a difference" and are in a financial position to be able to "give" their time.

**Arrogant-One** · 10-21-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

With an older age limit, you cannot get career politicians who have to look to the next election.

Couldn't this be achieved by increasing the voting cycle from 3 years to 4 or 5?

**Iconoclast** · 10-21-2007, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Couldn't this be achieved by increasing the voting cycle from 3 years to 4 or 5?

Partly. It would give them an extra few years to do the "right thing" before having to do the best political thing.

I have a personal theory that there should be no general elections. Simply have a one seat a week up for election. No big campaigns. There would be a rotating focus on every facet of Australian society. At present, the monied classes get heard the most during elections because they can saturate the media with advertisements.

Also, electors would realise that being in a swinging seat gets more pork from the barrel, and threfore vote accordingly. At present, blue ribon Lib/Lab are starved for attention. Grass roots, Government for the people at the grass roots. Big picture "right decissions" can still be done while diverting attention of punters with pork.

View Poll Results: Who will win the Federal Election?
ALP by 5 seats or less	2	14.29%
Coalition by 5 seats or less	2	14.29%
ALP by more than 5 seats and less than 15	6	42.86%
Coalition by more than 5 seats and less than 15	0	0%
ALP by 15 seats or more	4	28.57%
Coalition by 15 seats or more	0	0%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

08-07-2007, 07:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 100	Federal Elections I'm sure the date will be announced soon.. I think Peter Costello said 'not September and not November'... who will win and will it be close or not?

08-07-2007, 07:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari I'm sure the date will be announced soon.. I think Peter Costello said 'not September and not November'... who will win and will it be close or not? In a way the Coalition winning a Senate majority really stuffed them. It allowed the IR changes to go through, which in turn soured public opinion against them. Howard was seen to be doing a good job up to that point. But apart from that 10 years seems to be the shelf life of any federal government regardless of persuasion. The Coalition's only hope to take government within the next 6 years will be to allow Malcolm Turnbull to take over as Leader of the Opposition when they lose. I suspect the writing is on the wall for the Howard Government, and Rudd will win handily. The only good news is that when Labor forms government, the economy should go into the toilet, and that in turn should cool the housing market.

08-12-2007, 10:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Uki Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 23	Don't trust Howard He will possibly toss another baby overboard. AO knows that you cannot trust anyone with the name Howard.

08-13-2007, 09:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Bill Powell Sunshine Coast Chess Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 18	Good People come from the Sunshine Coast Kevin Rudd comes from the Sunshine Coast, Qld. He and his Family are well respected in this area. He come from a poor working family, attended School at Nambour Public School. Kevin is more with it then John Howard and knows what it was like to be poor.

08-13-2007, 08:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	It is a little known fact that since WWII, there has been no correlation between the left/right inclination of democratic governments world wide and the rate of economic growth in their nations. It is the level of democracy that matters to growth, not the level government intervention in the economy. Therefore, if you - AO - are thinking that a Kevin Rudd lead ALP will send us down the toilet I think you may be expressing a commonly held and incorrect view, that leftists are bad for the economy.

08-13-2007, 10:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Good people from the Sunshine Coast Originally Posted by Bill Powell Kevin Rudd comes from the Sunshine Coast, Qld. He and his Family are well respected in this area. He come from a poor working family, attended School at Nambour Public School. Kevin is more with it then John Howard and knows what it was like to be poor. Indeed, I know a couple good people from the Sunshine Coast. That's why I hope there will be a Caloundra Open this year. In my post above I was actually referring to a different Kevin (not Rudd) and trying to be cute. But in reality I really don't care who wins the election because it makes very little difference to my life. AO

08-24-2007, 08:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 100	Since it was revealed Kevin Rudd visited a strip club, I noticed a poll on the ninemsn site 'Will this incident change your vote?' The story attracted something like 2000 comments but what I found interesting is how it would change someone's vote - one might assume it to be a negative but perhaps many people would change their vote in favour of Rudd if they perceive him to identify more with the average Australian. I'm reminded of Bob Hawke's popularity in relation to the world record he held for speedy beer-drinking.

10-21-2007, 12:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 204	Rudd is stuffing it up! So Rudd and company are now not as far ahead in the polls. Maybe if they stopped pretending to be the Coalition with a fresh face they would still be miles ahead. The latest tax policy announcement by Labor was a pathetic joke, basically exactly the same as Howard's. I guess they needed Howard to release it first so that they would have a model to work off of. Its sad because the Howard government has been so complacent on so many issue, and has the stupidest foreign policy position I have ever seen, an IR policy which is clearly bad for workers, and no worthwhile environmental policy - and they are still in contention because Labor isn't taking advantage of the position. Its like the eunuch who went to the brothel but didn't know what to do when he got there.

10-21-2007, 12:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
MOZ Figurehead absolute. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In the Margin Posts: 1,062	Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures So Rudd and company are now not as far ahead in the polls. Maybe if they stopped pretending to be the Coalition with a fresh face they would still be miles ahead. The latest tax policy announcement by Labor was a pathetic joke, basically exactly the same as Howard's. I guess they needed Howard to release it first so that they would have a model to work off of. Its sad because the Howard government has been so complacent on so many issue, and has the stupidest foreign policy position I have ever seen, an IR policy which is clearly bad for workers, and no worthwhile environmental policy - and they are still in contention because Labor isn't taking advantage of the position. Its like the eunuch who went to the brothel but didn't know what to do when he got there. Well, he (Rudd) got so far ahead right from the start that the margin must have validated the early strategy. And possibly that early strategy was > small target > nose clean > one winnable big issue. It was the strategy Howard used to defeat the unpopular Keating in 1996. I guess there would be a huge reluctance to vary from that Rudd strategy now. And 1 week of backward steps is not panic point. I read your comments with interest. MOZ

10-21-2007, 11:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	I do not want tax cuts. I want: More healthcare employees in preventitive medicine. More eductional/training opportunities for all. No pokies. No 4WD imports. Our own nuclear weapons. Life sentances for white collar scum - (keep the no death sentences policy.) Wish list: Election promises held classed as binding legal cantracts between Government and People. Less privacy - open searches on all, by all, at the ATO, police records et cetara. Voting rights for children - cast by proxy by parents. Minimum age for a parliamentry seat, 60 years old. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 11:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
MOZ Figurehead absolute. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In the Margin Posts: 1,062	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I do not want tax cuts. I want: More healthcare employees in preventitive medicine. More eductional/training opportunities for all. No pokies. No 4WD imports. Our own nuclear weapons. Life sentances for white collar scum - (keep the no death sentences policy.) Wish list: Election promises held classed as binding legal cantracts between Government and People. Less privacy - open searches on all, by all, at the ATO, police records et cetara. Voting rights for children - cast by proxy by parents. Minimum age for a parliamentry seat, 60 years old. ^ I guess that means that you will not be voting for the incumbents. That seems to be the only certainty. All other voting options have a lowish chance of satisfying your wish-list. But at least those chances are non-zero. Btw...did ya mean minimum in the final sentence? MOZ

10-21-2007, 02:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by MOZ ^Btw...did ya mean minimum in the final sentence? Yep. Young people are too naive. Middle aged people have too much self interest. Older folk have experience and nothing to lose. With an older age limit, you cannot get career politicians who have to look to the next election. Also, people nearing the end of their normal working age are only going to go into politics if they still want to "make a difference" and are in a financial position to be able to "give" their time. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-21-2007, 02:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast With an older age limit, you cannot get career politicians who have to look to the next election. Couldn't this be achieved by increasing the voting cycle from 3 years to 4 or 5? __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

10-21-2007, 03:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Couldn't this be achieved by increasing the voting cycle from 3 years to 4 or 5? Partly. It would give them an extra few years to do the "right thing" before having to do the best political thing. I have a personal theory that there should be no general elections. Simply have a one seat a week up for election. No big campaigns. There would be a rotating focus on every facet of Australian society. At present, the monied classes get heard the most during elections because they can saturate the media with advertisements. Also, electors would realise that being in a swinging seat gets more pork from the barrel, and threfore vote accordingly. At present, blue ribon Lib/Lab are starved for attention. Grass roots, Government for the people at the grass roots. Big picture "right decissions" can still be done while diverting attention of punters with pork. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

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