China/Tibet and the Olympics - OzChess

**Firegoat7** · 03-25-2008, 06:49 PM

Hi,

This has been in the news all week. So I thought maybe a link might help get a discussion going. http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaust...lations_543021

Politically I find this conflict correlates quite well with what we were talking about in the indigenous thread.

cheers,
Fg7

**Arrogant-One** · 03-25-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi,

This has been in the news all week. So I thought maybe a link might help get a discussion going. http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaust...lations_543021

Politically I find this conflict correlates quite well with what we were talking about in the indigenous thread.

cheers,
Fg7

I am getting a little tired of these fools trying to hijack the Olympics for their own self interested political causes. In particular it is unfair to the athletes who have spent years training.

**Euro-Chess** · 03-25-2008, 07:17 PM

But isn't this Tibet's best chance to put some international pressure on China? One must not underestimate how desperate these oppressed people are. They have my support and I anticipate that the end result will be a step forward for them.

**YumYum** · 04-02-2008, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Euro-Chess

But isn't this Tibet's best chance to put some international pressure on China? One must not underestimate how desperate these oppressed people are. They have my support and I anticipate that the end result will be a step forward for them.

Have you ever been there? I have, as a tourist years ago. Things are really not that bad, this is just a cause. Some people will call it a fad. Take a look at this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...bet/index.html

Now I ask you, does this render void the Tibetan cause for which so many people have fought for peacefully for so many years? I don't think anyone here would argue that it would. Or, do you think that if Tibetans move from peaceful discourse to suicide bombings they become terrorists? Is this really so simple?

**phild707** · 04-23-2008, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by YumYum

Have you ever been there? I have, as a tourist years ago. Things are really not that bad, this is just a cause. Some people will call it a fad. Take a look at this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...bet/index.html

Now I ask you, does this render void the Tibetan cause for which so many people have fought for peacefully for so many years? I don't think anyone here would argue that it would. Or, do you think that if Tibetans move from peaceful discourse to suicide bombings they become terrorists? Is this really so simple?

I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of people who are complaining about the Chinese in Tibet and their human rights record, (particularly the latter).
I heard yesterday (SBS news) that the people in China are unaware of the protests (sometimes violent) that have followed the torch around the world because all foreign newcasts covering these protests are being blocked while the domestic news services and televsion are providing santised version of events which makes no mention of these incidents at all.

In my view the Olympics should not have been given to a country such as China.

**Arrogant-One** · 04-23-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by phild707

In my view the Olympics should not have been given to a country such as China.

Indeed. The country could perhaps be criticized on the same basis as Chess Chat:

Power hungry people who abuse their power;

Power hungry people who refuse to give up their power; and

Power hungry people who are completely unaccountabe to the one's they preside over.

Best,

AO

**Euro-Chess** · 05-03-2008, 05:23 PM

The attention surrounding the Olympic torch relays in several countries has focused attention on the human rights issue in China. That's just obvious. Many people assume the whole problem is that China remains a communist dictatorship. Therefore, abuses occur because a strong, central state ignores the rights of its citizens. With regard to Tibet and the suppression of the religious movement Falun Gong this is probably true. However, the larger problem in modern China arises because the central Chinese state is actually too weak to defend the rights of its people.

Most of the abuses against the rights of ordinary Chinese citizens such as peasants who have had their land taken away without just compensation, or workers forced to work in sweatshops, or villagers poisoned by illegal dumping of pollutants, occur at a different rate than they do in Beijing.

The central Chinese government, by all accounts, would like to crack down on these types of activities which are normally done by officials who are lower on the power scale, however it has simply been unable to do so. It both lacks the capacity to do this and depends too heavily on these local officials who produce jobs and revenue.

Therefore, it really is unfair to blame China for these abuses when someone takes the time to think about it.

**phild707** · 05-04-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Euro-Chess

The attention surrounding the Olympic torch relays in several countries has focused attention on the human rights issue in China. That's just obvious. Many people assume the whole problem is that China remains a communist dictatorship. Therefore, abuses occur because a strong, central state ignores the rights of its citizens. With regard to Tibet and the suppression of the religious movement Falun Gong this is probably true. However, the larger problem in modern China arises because the central Chinese state is actually too weak to defend the rights of its people.

Most of the abuses against the rights of ordinary Chinese citizens such as peasants who have had their land taken away without just compensation, or workers forced to work in sweatshops, or villagers poisoned by illegal dumping of pollutants, occur at a different rate than they do in Beijing.

The central Chinese government, by all accounts, would like to crack down on these types of activities which are normally done by officials who are lower on the power scale, however it has simply been unable to do so. It both lacks the capacity to do this and depends too heavily on these local officials who produce jobs and revenue.

Therefore, it really is unfair to blame China for these abuses when someone takes the time to think about it.

Hmmm, interesting to hear comment from someone who seems to have a deeper insight into this situation than the average man in the street (eg Me!)

Reality is always more complicated than it appears at first glance.

**Euro-Chess** · 05-07-2008, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by phild707

Hmmm, interesting to hear comment from someone who seems to have a deeper insight into this situation than the average man in the street (eg Me!)

Reality is always more complicated than it appears at first glance.

Please don't think of me as an expert. In fact, much of what I said was based on an article that I read recently. One aspect that seems to cloud most people's judgement on the subject is that we believe there are no human rights abuses at all in our country, so we tend to view the issue through rose coloured glasses.

03-25-2008, 06:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Playing backyard cricket Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: somewhere in virtual reality Posts: 605	China/Tibet and the Olympics Hi, This has been in the news all week. So I thought maybe a link might help get a discussion going. http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaust...lations_543021 Politically I find this conflict correlates quite well with what we were talking about in the indigenous thread. cheers, Fg7 __________________ "...A thorough knowledge of the elements takes us more than half the road to mastership" - Aron Nimzowitsch

03-25-2008, 07:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi, This has been in the news all week. So I thought maybe a link might help get a discussion going. http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaust...lations_543021 Politically I find this conflict correlates quite well with what we were talking about in the indigenous thread. cheers, Fg7 I am getting a little tired of these fools trying to hijack the Olympics for their own self interested political causes. In particular it is unfair to the athletes who have spent years training. __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

03-25-2008, 07:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	But isn't this Tibet's best chance to put some international pressure on China? One must not underestimate how desperate these oppressed people are. They have my support and I anticipate that the end result will be a step forward for them. __________________ “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

04-02-2008, 09:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
YumYum Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 112	Tibet Suicide Bombings Originally Posted by Euro-Chess But isn't this Tibet's best chance to put some international pressure on China? One must not underestimate how desperate these oppressed people are. They have my support and I anticipate that the end result will be a step forward for them. Have you ever been there? I have, as a tourist years ago. Things are really not that bad, this is just a cause. Some people will call it a fad. Take a look at this: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...bet/index.html Now I ask you, does this render void the Tibetan cause for which so many people have fought for peacefully for so many years? I don't think anyone here would argue that it would. Or, do you think that if Tibetans move from peaceful discourse to suicide bombings they become terrorists? Is this really so simple? __________________ Panda is what the world was waiting for!

04-23-2008, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
phild707 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burnie International Airport Posts: 218	Originally Posted by YumYum Have you ever been there? I have, as a tourist years ago. Things are really not that bad, this is just a cause. Some people will call it a fad. Take a look at this: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...bet/index.html Now I ask you, does this render void the Tibetan cause for which so many people have fought for peacefully for so many years? I don't think anyone here would argue that it would. Or, do you think that if Tibetans move from peaceful discourse to suicide bombings they become terrorists? Is this really so simple? I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of people who are complaining about the Chinese in Tibet and their human rights record, (particularly the latter). I heard yesterday (SBS news) that the people in China are unaware of the protests (sometimes violent) that have followed the torch around the world because all foreign newcasts covering these protests are being blocked while the domestic news services and televsion are providing santised version of events which makes no mention of these incidents at all. In my view the Olympics should not have been given to a country such as China. __________________ "A prudent question is one half of wisdom". Francis Bacon

04-23-2008, 02:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by phild707 In my view the Olympics should not have been given to a country such as China. Indeed. The country could perhaps be criticized on the same basis as Chess Chat: Power hungry people who abuse their power; Power hungry people who refuse to give up their power; and Power hungry people who are completely unaccountabe to the one's they preside over. Best, AO __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

05-03-2008, 05:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	China The attention surrounding the Olympic torch relays in several countries has focused attention on the human rights issue in China. That's just obvious. Many people assume the whole problem is that China remains a communist dictatorship. Therefore, abuses occur because a strong, central state ignores the rights of its citizens. With regard to Tibet and the suppression of the religious movement Falun Gong this is probably true. However, the larger problem in modern China arises because the central Chinese state is actually too weak to defend the rights of its people. Most of the abuses against the rights of ordinary Chinese citizens such as peasants who have had their land taken away without just compensation, or workers forced to work in sweatshops, or villagers poisoned by illegal dumping of pollutants, occur at a different rate than they do in Beijing. The central Chinese government, by all accounts, would like to crack down on these types of activities which are normally done by officials who are lower on the power scale, however it has simply been unable to do so. It both lacks the capacity to do this and depends too heavily on these local officials who produce jobs and revenue. Therefore, it really is unfair to blame China for these abuses when someone takes the time to think about it. __________________ “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

05-04-2008, 12:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
phild707 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burnie International Airport Posts: 218	Originally Posted by Euro-Chess The attention surrounding the Olympic torch relays in several countries has focused attention on the human rights issue in China. That's just obvious. Many people assume the whole problem is that China remains a communist dictatorship. Therefore, abuses occur because a strong, central state ignores the rights of its citizens. With regard to Tibet and the suppression of the religious movement Falun Gong this is probably true. However, the larger problem in modern China arises because the central Chinese state is actually too weak to defend the rights of its people. Most of the abuses against the rights of ordinary Chinese citizens such as peasants who have had their land taken away without just compensation, or workers forced to work in sweatshops, or villagers poisoned by illegal dumping of pollutants, occur at a different rate than they do in Beijing. The central Chinese government, by all accounts, would like to crack down on these types of activities which are normally done by officials who are lower on the power scale, however it has simply been unable to do so. It both lacks the capacity to do this and depends too heavily on these local officials who produce jobs and revenue. Therefore, it really is unfair to blame China for these abuses when someone takes the time to think about it. Hmmm, interesting to hear comment from someone who seems to have a deeper insight into this situation than the average man in the street (eg Me!) Reality is always more complicated than it appears at first glance. __________________ "A prudent question is one half of wisdom". Francis Bacon

05-07-2008, 04:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	Originally Posted by phild707 Hmmm, interesting to hear comment from someone who seems to have a deeper insight into this situation than the average man in the street (eg Me!) Reality is always more complicated than it appears at first glance. Please don't think of me as an expert. In fact, much of what I said was based on an article that I read recently. One aspect that seems to cloud most people's judgement on the subject is that we believe there are no human rights abuses at all in our country, so we tend to view the issue through rose coloured glasses. __________________ “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: