Rudd's Iraq Policy - OzChess

**Euro-Chess** · 12-18-2007, 07:17 PM

Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship.

**Chessic-Adventures** · 12-29-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Euro-Chess

Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship.

I think its good Rudd has finally put an exit plan in place and that he will stay on in Afganistan. But everyone seems to think fixing Afgan is just a 2 or 3 year committment. Wrong, this is a highly disfunctional countyr. We're looking at a 10-15 year committment there minimum if we truly want to help them get back on their feet. But most softies just don't like the idea of that kind of long term effort, even if it ultimately is in their best interetss by preventing further terrorism and stopping the massive flow of refugees to the West that come from Afganistan.

**Bill Powell** · 01-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Euro-Chess

Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship.

That is OK for you to say when your not the troop in Iraq. I see the mess a lot of vetrans that have seen action are now having to live with while you just sit there giving us your view. I have served for 25 years, have you ever put on a uniform? This war was about Oil and weet sales.

**Fischer-Fan** · 02-24-2008, 06:11 PM

Australia confirms Iraq troop withdrawal, pledges strong US ties

SYDNEY (AFP) - Australia's new government confirmed Thursday that it would withdraw its combat troops from Iraq by mid-year but pledged strong ties with the United States ahead of landmark talks this week.

The withdrawal was promised during the campaign for elections last November which saw US President George W. Bush's close ally John Howard ousted by centre-left Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

Australia's 550-strong battlegroup in southern Iraq would be pulled out in close consultation with the United States and Britain to minimise disruption, Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said.

The withdrawal will be on the agenda when Smith and Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon meet US Defence Secretary Robert Gates and Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte for security talks in Canberra on Saturday.

It will be the first time the annual Australia-US Ministerial consultation, known as AUSMIN, has been hosted by Rudd's Labor government.

Both countries have been at pains to stress that the change of government in Australia and its withdrawal of troops from Iraq will not harm relations between them.

The pull-out "in no way disturbs the fundamental nature of our alliance relationship," Smith told parliament.

The security talks would "underline the fundamental importance and the long-term enduring nature of the alliance relationship between Australia and the United States."

The alliance was part of Australia's indispensable strategic, security and defence arrangements and transcended changes in government in either country, he said.

"All the assessments are that the military situation in Iraq has substantially improved over the last recent period of twelve months or so," Smith told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation earlier.

"Of course Labor always had the strong view that we shouldn't have been there in the first place and we came to government with a very strong election commitment that we would withdraw our troops from Iraq by the middle of this year and we will meet that election commitment," he said.

"It doesn't occur on one day -- it's a big logistical operation to put troops in and it's a big logistical operation to get them out."

Australia will still have about 1,000 military personnel in and around Iraq, including a 110-strong security detachment in Baghdad. It will also have personnel for Hercules and Orion aircraft based outside Iraq as well as a warship in the Gulf.

___________________________________

this is an article i found just before the weekend. my question is what did was achieved by our military and other efforts in iraq?

**Euro-Chess** · 04-20-2008, 07:13 PM

Below is an email from an Australian currently serving in Iraq. I'm at a loss for words.

"Before I came over here I thought we (the Australian Army) were pretty shit hot..... was I ever wrong!....The Yanks (I hope you don't mind me using that word) are so professional from the top to the bottom that it is almost embarrassing to be in their company, and to call yourself a soldier....don't get me wrong, we are good at what we do but the Yanks are so much better.....they are complete at what they do, how they do it and their attitude is awesome....they don't complain they just get on with the job and they do it right.....I carry a Minimi (SAW) so I am not real worried about a confrontation but I tell you I feel safer just knowing that the US Army is close by....If we got into trouble I know that our boys would come running and we could deal with it but they would probably be passed by a load of Hummers. No questions asked, no glory sought, the Americans would just fight with us and for us because that is their nature, to protect those in need of protection.....We use the American Mess so you could say that we are fed by the Americans.....they have every right to be pissed at that but they don't bitch about that they just make us feel as welcome as possible....what gets to me is that the Yanks don't walk around with a "we are better than you attitude" and they could because they are, they treat us as equals and as brothers in arms.

If nothing else, coming here has taught me that the Americans are a truly great Nation and a truly great bunch of people.....Let's face it they don't HAVE to be here, they could stay in America and beat the shit out of anyone who threatened them, BUT THEY ARE HERE because they believe they should be here, and the Iraqis would be screwed if they weren't here.....When I come home, you and I we are going to the US, we will buy some bikes and we are going riding...."

The reason why I am sharing this with you is because I realize that you (as a nation) must get pretty pissed with all the criticism you receive by the so-called "know it alls" who are sitting at home - safe. The reality is that they are safe, just as I am, because of America . If the world went arse up tomorrow there is f**k all we ( Australia ) could do about it, but I know that the Americans would be there putting themselves on the line for others. That to me is the sign of greatness.

Turner

**Gumshoe Mystery** · 04-21-2008, 09:49 AM

I think anything to do in life that is based on lies is bound to fail. ?Failing to realize that it has failed is a simple calamity in the making. If every "reason" that was used to enter there is not true, then staying there is morally unacceptable.

I keep on hearing that you need to take your time to pull out. It's like telling a baby who has pooped on himself to wait for the perfect time to take off his nappy. The longer he has the dirty nappies on ,the more it affects his health.

12-18-2007, 07:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	Rudd's Iraq Policy Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship.

12-29-2007, 06:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 204	Originally Posted by Euro-Chess Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship. I think its good Rudd has finally put an exit plan in place and that he will stay on in Afganistan. But everyone seems to think fixing Afgan is just a 2 or 3 year committment. Wrong, this is a highly disfunctional countyr. We're looking at a 10-15 year committment there minimum if we truly want to help them get back on their feet. But most softies just don't like the idea of that kind of long term effort, even if it ultimately is in their best interetss by preventing further terrorism and stopping the massive flow of refugees to the West that come from Afganistan.

01-02-2008, 04:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bill Powell Sunshine Coast Chess Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 18	Originally Posted by Euro-Chess Kevin Rudd capitalised during the election on Howard's failure to pull the troops out of Iraq. This was populism at its worst, but worked a treat at tossing Howard out of office. Is pulling the troops out a good idea though? Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. Since WW2 if there is an American fighting overseas chances are you'll find an Aussie Digger alongside him. Like anyone else in the world we'll have our differences with the Americans but we shouldn't jepardise the close relationship we have with the U.S. It is far too important to us economically, politically, militarily and historically. They saved our arses from the wily sons of Nippon during WWII. Despite our cultural links to Europe, primarily the UK, the United States is our principal ally. Rudd will be foolish to pull our troops out and ruin that friendship. That is OK for you to say when your not the troop in Iraq. I see the mess a lot of vetrans that have seen action are now having to live with while you just sit there giving us your view. I have served for 25 years, have you ever put on a uniform? This war was about Oil and weet sales. Last edited by Bill Powell : 01-03-2008 at 03:37 PM

02-24-2008, 06:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 147	Article Australia confirms Iraq troop withdrawal, pledges strong US ties SYDNEY (AFP) - Australia's new government confirmed Thursday that it would withdraw its combat troops from Iraq by mid-year but pledged strong ties with the United States ahead of landmark talks this week. The withdrawal was promised during the campaign for elections last November which saw US President George W. Bush's close ally John Howard ousted by centre-left Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Australia's 550-strong battlegroup in southern Iraq would be pulled out in close consultation with the United States and Britain to minimise disruption, Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said. The withdrawal will be on the agenda when Smith and Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon meet US Defence Secretary Robert Gates and Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte for security talks in Canberra on Saturday. It will be the first time the annual Australia-US Ministerial consultation, known as AUSMIN, has been hosted by Rudd's Labor government. Both countries have been at pains to stress that the change of government in Australia and its withdrawal of troops from Iraq will not harm relations between them. The pull-out "in no way disturbs the fundamental nature of our alliance relationship," Smith told parliament. The security talks would "underline the fundamental importance and the long-term enduring nature of the alliance relationship between Australia and the United States." The alliance was part of Australia's indispensable strategic, security and defence arrangements and transcended changes in government in either country, he said. "All the assessments are that the military situation in Iraq has substantially improved over the last recent period of twelve months or so," Smith told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation earlier. "Of course Labor always had the strong view that we shouldn't have been there in the first place and we came to government with a very strong election commitment that we would withdraw our troops from Iraq by the middle of this year and we will meet that election commitment," he said. "It doesn't occur on one day -- it's a big logistical operation to put troops in and it's a big logistical operation to get them out." Australia will still have about 1,000 military personnel in and around Iraq, including a 110-strong security detachment in Baghdad. It will also have personnel for Hercules and Orion aircraft based outside Iraq as well as a warship in the Gulf. ___________________________________ this is an article i found just before the weekend. my question is what did was achieved by our military and other efforts in iraq? __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer

04-20-2008, 07:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 127	Below is an email from an Australian currently serving in Iraq. I'm at a loss for words. "Before I came over here I thought we (the Australian Army) were pretty shit hot..... was I ever wrong!....The Yanks (I hope you don't mind me using that word) are so professional from the top to the bottom that it is almost embarrassing to be in their company, and to call yourself a soldier....don't get me wrong, we are good at what we do but the Yanks are so much better.....they are complete at what they do, how they do it and their attitude is awesome....they don't complain they just get on with the job and they do it right.....I carry a Minimi (SAW) so I am not real worried about a confrontation but I tell you I feel safer just knowing that the US Army is close by....If we got into trouble I know that our boys would come running and we could deal with it but they would probably be passed by a load of Hummers. No questions asked, no glory sought, the Americans would just fight with us and for us because that is their nature, to protect those in need of protection.....We use the American Mess so you could say that we are fed by the Americans.....they have every right to be pissed at that but they don't bitch about that they just make us feel as welcome as possible....what gets to me is that the Yanks don't walk around with a "we are better than you attitude" and they could because they are, they treat us as equals and as brothers in arms. If nothing else, coming here has taught me that the Americans are a truly great Nation and a truly great bunch of people.....Let's face it they don't HAVE to be here, they could stay in America and beat the shit out of anyone who threatened them, BUT THEY ARE HERE because they believe they should be here, and the Iraqis would be screwed if they weren't here.....When I come home, you and I we are going to the US, we will buy some bikes and we are going riding...." The reason why I am sharing this with you is because I realize that you (as a nation) must get pretty pissed with all the criticism you receive by the so-called "know it alls" who are sitting at home - safe. The reality is that they are safe, just as I am, because of America . If the world went arse up tomorrow there is f**k all we ( Australia ) could do about it, but I know that the Americans would be there putting themselves on the line for others. That to me is the sign of greatness. Turner __________________ “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

04-21-2008, 09:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gumshoe Mystery Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 141	I think anything to do in life that is based on lies is bound to fail. ?Failing to realize that it has failed is a simple calamity in the making. If every "reason" that was used to enter there is not true, then staying there is morally unacceptable. I keep on hearing that you need to take your time to pull out. It's like telling a baby who has pooped on himself to wait for the perfect time to take off his nappy. The longer he has the dirty nappies on ,the more it affects his health. __________________ Student Retreat \| Web Hosting from £1.95 a Month

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