Financial Losses of the NSWCA - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 12-06-2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Peter Parr on CC

In the NSWCA year ending 31st July 2005 the NSWCA recorded a profit of $4057. In the year ending 31st July 2006 the tsunami caused a massive loss of $11248 (a whopping difference of $15305).

Bill Gletsos' reply is scant and wanting in relevent information to refute Peter Parr's claims.

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos on CC

This is all simply incorrect.

Bill,

Is the amount lost incorrect? Is the fact that there was a loss incorrect? Are minutes being made available to the ordinary members of the NSWCA by publication on the NSWCA webpage or publication elsewhere? If not, what mechanisms exists (if any) for the members of the NSWCA to ascertain for themselves the financial affairs of the NSWCA? Please don't duck for cover like a certain former state chess association president often did when hard questions required answers.

I look forward to your response in due course, if you have the courage to make one.

Regards

AO

**Chessic-Adventures** · 12-06-2007, 07:16 PM

In the NSWCA year ending 31st July 2005 the NSWCA recorded a profit of $4057. In the year ending 31st July 2006 the tsunami caused a massive loss of $11248 (a whopping difference of $15305).

These sound like specific amounts, how were these sums calculated?

**Iconoclast** · 12-08-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures

These sound like specific amounts, how were these sums calculated?

It is a technical device called a Balance Sheet - used by treasurers to calculate such stuff

**Just2Good** · 12-09-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

It is a technical device called a Balance Sheet - used by treasurers to calculate such stuff

I notice there hasn't been a murmur about this on CC. Clearly a subject certain moderators wants to avoid scrutiny on. Makes me wonder if the loss suffered by the NSWCA under Bill Gletsos' presidency is even bigger than the amount referred to by Peter Parr.

**Iconoclast** · 12-09-2007, 03:11 PM

Norm Greenwood (NSWCA) does the books - fully reliable.

**Just2Good** · 12-21-2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Bill,

Is the amount lost incorrect? Is the fact that there was a loss incorrect? Are minutes being made available to the ordinary members of the NSWCA by publication on the NSWCA webpage or publication elsewhere? If not, what mechanisms exists (if any) for the members of the NSWCA to ascertain for themselves the financial affairs of the NSWCA?

Dear Friends!

But I am sorry the bad news doesn't end with the NSWCA loss of $11,000.

Apparently, again under the presidency of Bill Gletsos, the NSWCA last year lost - that's right, LOST, approximately 70 members.

At this point I would advise Bill Gletsos to keep quiet about this all in the hope that everyone forgets and the matter disappears from site. He now has the unhappy distinction of being the worst performing state chess association president ever.

And for those of you who think I am writing this off the top of my head, be advised that I spent time speaking with someone who attended the recent NSWCA AGM, and have heard this all from the horses mouth! This is serious, these are genuine issues of concern, and the record clearly speaks for itself.

How strange that Bill has nothing to say disputing any of this.

AO

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-21-2007, 08:20 PM

The NSWCA did not lose $11,000 this year nor did it lose $3,000 the year before.

In fact Toolsie, if you had even had the silghtest intelligence you could have seen last year figures by checking the AGM minutes on the NSWCA web site.

It was abundantly clear to anyone of even the meanest intelligence what the NSWCA figures were for the year before last by checking the NSWCA website where the AGM minutes for 2006 are and have been for around 10 months.

In post #1 of this thread you quote Peter Parr. From that quote it is clear he is saying that in the financial year ending July 2006 (i.e. the year before last) the NSWCA lost $11,248.

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-21-2007, 08:49 PM

Anyone interested in checking out the facts regarding the NSWCA finances can do so by following my responses in the thread here rather than the misinformation being pedaled here.

**Just2Good** · 12-21-2007, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

The NSWCA did not lose $11,000 this year nor did it lose $3,000 the year before.

... you could have seen last year figures by checking the AGM minutes on the NSWCA web site.

In post #1 of this thread you quote Peter Parr. From that quote it is clear he is saying that in the financial year ending July 2006 (i.e. the year before last) the NSWCA lost $11,248.

So you are saying that the NSWCA lost $11,000 last year? Were you NSWCA President last year? I note that the NSWCA also lost money in 2005, but only $509 - so I guess thats not too bad.

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

As was shown in the documents circulated by the Treasurer at the 2006 AGM, the NSWCA paid rent for its venues of $3822, newsletter and mail-out costs of $2994, ACF school levy fees of $1325 and ACF Admin fees for NSWCA events of $946.

Okay, so you agree that $11,000 odd was lost, and your big point seems to be that this loss occurred in 2006 and not 2007. If you were president both years, I can't see why you are making such a big deal about that.

Originally Posted by NSWCA AGM Minutes 2006

a) Finances

The NSWCA had incurred a substantial loss, mainly from tournaments. The Treasurer will be tabling the Accounts and reporting more fully. The 2005 State Championship, Ryde-Eastwood Open and Ralph Seberry Memorial incurred losses totaling around $3,000. Major losses in 2006 were incurred on the City of Sydney Championship and the NSW Open tournaments of around $6,000. The City of Sydney Championship was held in the City at the Bridge Club and the entries were the worst for many years. The loss on the event was just over $2,200. The NSW Open had successful numbers from its inception building up to 115 entries for the 2005 year. In earlier years Hakoah Club had been a successful venue, but for 2006 the entries for the NSW Open fell to 85, thereby incurring a loss of just over $3,600. The Grand Prix open prizes and the guaranteeing of prizes were contributing factors to the losses on tournaments. Two new events introduced in July were the C J S Purdy Centenary and Fischerbooks over 40 tournaments, which incurred losses of around $1400 and $590 respectively despite sponsorship of $500 from Clive Lane for the Fischerbooks event.

When and where did the Treasurer ever do so Bill? I sure bet this follow up report wasn't put on the NSWCA website, but if I am wrong, prove me wrong.

Also, I note that you failed to address the the issue of 60 to 70 former members who decided not to re-join the NSWCA. Your response would be appreciated, or else just concede that they were lost under your leadership and we can move on.

Thanks Bill,

AO

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-21-2007, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

So you are saying that the NSWCA lost $11,000 last year, and then $3000 the year before that? Were you NSWCA President during both years?

What I said was clear and your lack of comprehension isnt my problem.

A simple check of the NSWCA website would show you the figures as well as when I was NSWCA President.

However since it is Xmas I'll save you the trouble and point out the $11,000 odd loss was in 2006 and the previous year 2005 the NSWCA made a $4,000 odd profit.
Also I was Vice-President in 2003 when there was no NSWCA President and have been NSWCA President since 2004.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Okay, so you agree that $11,000 odd was lost, and your big point seems to be that this loss occurred in 2006 and not 2007. If you were president both years, I can't see why you are making such a big deal about that fact.

Because what you claimed was not a fact. you claimed the NSWCA lost $11,000 this year. That is not a fact, it was simply wrong.

I see where you have as usual edited your post without any such acknowledgement or time stamp.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One after initial post was made

When and where did the Treasurer ever do so Bill? I sure bet this follow up report wasn't put on the NSWCA, but if I am wrong, prove me wrong.

You fool.
If you look further down the AGM minutes you will see that is stated under 4. Treasurer’s Report that the Treasurer's report was presented and circulated to the members at the meeting and that his report was accepted by the meeting.

**Just2Good** · 12-21-2007, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Because what you claimed was not a fact. you claimed the NSWCA lost $11,000 this year. That is not a fact, it was simply wrong.

I agree. The year I said the NSWCA lost $11,000 was incorrect. But the fact that it had lost $11,000 in a recent year was correct.

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

I see where you have as usual edited your post without any such acknowledgement or time stamp.

Yes, I agree, I editted my post. If memory serves, when I was a CC member I could also edit my own posts there. Whats wrong with editting one's own post? Also, I think even ordinary members can edit their posts (possibly) and not leave a edit marker or time stamp, the choice is their's (yours too because you are a member).

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

You fool.
If you look further down the AGM minutes you will see that is stated under 4. Treasurer’s Report that the Treasurer's report was presented and circulated to the members at the meeting and that his report was accepted by the meeting.

Okay, its there. Like I said if I am wrong prove me wrong, and you did (on that point). No need to get pushy or abusive mate. OzChess is a friendly and constructive forum, where members may disagree, but everyone makes an effort to be courteous.

Thanks for your answers,

AO

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-21-2007, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

I agree. The year I said the NSWCA lost $11,000 was incorrect. But the fact that it had lost $11,000 in a recent year was correct.

Yes but you claimed the NSWCA had lost it this year and that was incorrect and it was easily checkable. Once again you made a statement that was false, a habit you have continually had since you started posting on chesschat.

The fact the NSWCA had a $11,000 odd loss for 2006 was there for all to see via the 2006 AGM minutes which have been on the NSWCA website for over 10 months.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Yes, I agree, I editted my post. If memory serves when I was a CC member, I could also edit my own posts there. Whats wrong with editting one's own post?

Nothing is wrong with editing ones posts, however ordinary posters cannot edit their posts without leaving timestamp.
Your editing of your posts on the other hand without any timestamp or editing reason is a major concern.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Also, I think even ordinary members can edit their post and not leave a edit marker or time stamp, the choice is theirs (yours too because you are a member).

Incorrect. Although an ordinary poster can choose whether they leave an editing reason or not the ordinary poster cannot stop the timestamp appearing showing that the post was edited and by whom it was edited.
Only an admin can evade the timestamp.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Okay, its there. Like I said if I am wrong prove me wrong, and you did (on that point). No need to get pushy or abusive mate.

Lets get one thing straight. You are not my mate.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

OzChess is a friendly and constructive forum, where members may disagree, but everyone makes an effort to be courteous.

Rubbish. There are derogatory statements posted on this site by one of the owners directed at others.

**Gendo Ikari** · 12-22-2007, 02:37 AM

Hi,

This will quickly collapse into a meaningless flamewar reminscent of 'over there' unless the personal attacks cease.

AO, I agree with Bill insofar as that you should check your facts more thoroughly next time. Please conduct yourselves in a civil manner. Thankyou.

**Just2Good** · 12-22-2007, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari

Hi,

This will quickly collapse into a meaningless flamewar reminscent of 'over there' unless the personal attacks cease.

AO, I agree with Bill insofar as that you should check your facts more thoroughly next time. Please conduct yourselves in a civil manner. Thankyou.

I did check my facts to some extent. I had a discussion with a former heavy in NSW Chess Admnistration and my postings reflected what I was told. I probably should have done further checks, but I did get the information from a fairly reliable source.

Also, I noticed that Bill didn't address is issue of 70 lost members. That's probably because my source was correct about that.

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Although an ordinary poster can choose whether they leave an editing reason or not the ordinary poster cannot stop the timestamp appearing showing that the post was edited and by whom it was edited. Only an admin can evade the timestamp.

This is not entirely true. If a poster who is an ordinary member is the last poster in a thread, he or she can copy the post, delete it, re-paste the post, and then make edits. This would have the effect of editting a post without a timestamp. But I can't see why, after admitting that I often edit my own posts, any poster would be concerned about the lack of a timestamp. Everyone is entitled to edit their own posts on OzChess, you don't even need to put a reason in.

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-22-2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

This is not entirely true. If a poster who is an ordinary member is the last poster in a thread, he or she can copy the post, delete it, re-paste the post, and then make edits. This would have the effect of editting a post without a timestamp.

The fact that the post was reposted would show to an observant poster the fact that the repost has a different posting time to the posting time of the orginal deleted post.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

But I can't see why, after admitting that I often edit my own posts, any poster would be concerned about the lack of a timestamp.

Because you have a habit of changing your posts and changing your meaning without any evidence that it has occurred.

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Everyone is entitled to edit their own posts on OzChess, you don't even need to put a reason in.

Yes everyone is entitled to edit their posts, however you changing your posts without a timestamp is a major concern as your veracity is questionable at best.

View Poll Results: Do you believe the NSWCA lost money during the 2006-2007 financial year?
Yes	7	70.00%
No	3	30.00%
I Don't Know	3	30.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

12-06-2007, 11:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Financial Losses of the NSWCA Originally Posted by Peter Parr on CC In the NSWCA year ending 31st July 2005 the NSWCA recorded a profit of $4057. In the year ending 31st July 2006 the tsunami caused a massive loss of $11248 (a whopping difference of $15305). Bill Gletsos' reply is scant and wanting in relevent information to refute Peter Parr's claims. Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos on CC This is all simply incorrect. Bill, Is the amount lost incorrect? Is the fact that there was a loss incorrect? Are minutes being made available to the ordinary members of the NSWCA by publication on the NSWCA webpage or publication elsewhere? If not, what mechanisms exists (if any) for the members of the NSWCA to ascertain for themselves the financial affairs of the NSWCA? Please don't duck for cover like a certain former state chess association president often did when hard questions required answers. I look forward to your response in due course, if you have the courage to make one. Regards AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-08-2007, 01:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures These sound like specific amounts, how were these sums calculated? It is a technical device called a Balance Sheet - used by treasurers to calculate such stuff __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

12-09-2007, 01:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast It is a technical device called a Balance Sheet - used by treasurers to calculate such stuff I notice there hasn't been a murmur about this on CC. Clearly a subject certain moderators wants to avoid scrutiny on. Makes me wonder if the loss suffered by the NSWCA under Bill Gletsos' presidency is even bigger than the amount referred to by Peter Parr. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-09-2007, 03:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Norm Greenwood (NSWCA) does the books - fully reliable. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

12-06-2007, 07:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 221	In the NSWCA year ending 31st July 2005 the NSWCA recorded a profit of $4057. In the year ending 31st July 2006 the tsunami caused a massive loss of $11248 (a whopping difference of $15305). These sound like specific amounts, how were these sums calculated?

12-21-2007, 07:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Losses of the NSWCA Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Bill, Is the amount lost incorrect? Is the fact that there was a loss incorrect? Are minutes being made available to the ordinary members of the NSWCA by publication on the NSWCA webpage or publication elsewhere? If not, what mechanisms exists (if any) for the members of the NSWCA to ascertain for themselves the financial affairs of the NSWCA? Dear Friends! But I am sorry the bad news doesn't end with the NSWCA loss of $11,000. Apparently, again under the presidency of Bill Gletsos, the NSWCA last year lost - that's right, LOST, approximately 70 members. At this point I would advise Bill Gletsos to keep quiet about this all in the hope that everyone forgets and the matter disappears from site. He now has the unhappy distinction of being the worst performing state chess association president ever. And for those of you who think I am writing this off the top of my head, be advised that I spent time speaking with someone who attended the recent NSWCA AGM, and have heard this all from the horses mouth! This is serious, these are genuine issues of concern, and the record clearly speaks for itself. How strange that Bill has nothing to say disputing any of this. AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-21-2007, 08:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	The NSWCA did not lose $11,000 this year nor did it lose $3,000 the year before. In fact Toolsie, if you had even had the silghtest intelligence you could have seen last year figures by checking the AGM minutes on the NSWCA web site. It was abundantly clear to anyone of even the meanest intelligence what the NSWCA figures were for the year before last by checking the NSWCA website where the AGM minutes for 2006 are and have been for around 10 months. In post #1 of this thread you quote Peter Parr. From that quote it is clear he is saying that in the financial year ending July 2006 (i.e. the year before last) the NSWCA lost $11,248. Last edited by Gendo Ikari : 12-22-2007 at 02:33 AM Reason: Complaints of personal attacks

12-21-2007, 08:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Anyone interested in checking out the facts regarding the NSWCA finances can do so by following my responses in the thread here rather than the misinformation being pedaled here.

12-21-2007, 08:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos The NSWCA did not lose $11,000 this year nor did it lose $3,000 the year before. ... you could have seen last year figures by checking the AGM minutes on the NSWCA web site. In post #1 of this thread you quote Peter Parr. From that quote it is clear he is saying that in the financial year ending July 2006 (i.e. the year before last) the NSWCA lost $11,248. So you are saying that the NSWCA lost $11,000 last year? Were you NSWCA President last year? I note that the NSWCA also lost money in 2005, but only $509 - so I guess thats not too bad. Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos As was shown in the documents circulated by the Treasurer at the 2006 AGM, the NSWCA paid rent for its venues of $3822, newsletter and mail-out costs of $2994, ACF school levy fees of $1325 and ACF Admin fees for NSWCA events of $946. Okay, so you agree that $11,000 odd was lost, and your big point seems to be that this loss occurred in 2006 and not 2007. If you were president both years, I can't see why you are making such a big deal about that. Originally Posted by NSWCA AGM Minutes 2006 a) Finances The NSWCA had incurred a substantial loss, mainly from tournaments. The Treasurer will be tabling the Accounts and reporting more fully. The 2005 State Championship, Ryde-Eastwood Open and Ralph Seberry Memorial incurred losses totaling around $3,000. Major losses in 2006 were incurred on the City of Sydney Championship and the NSW Open tournaments of around $6,000. The City of Sydney Championship was held in the City at the Bridge Club and the entries were the worst for many years. The loss on the event was just over $2,200. The NSW Open had successful numbers from its inception building up to 115 entries for the 2005 year. In earlier years Hakoah Club had been a successful venue, but for 2006 the entries for the NSW Open fell to 85, thereby incurring a loss of just over $3,600. The Grand Prix open prizes and the guaranteeing of prizes were contributing factors to the losses on tournaments. Two new events introduced in July were the C J S Purdy Centenary and Fischerbooks over 40 tournaments, which incurred losses of around $1400 and $590 respectively despite sponsorship of $500 from Clive Lane for the Fischerbooks event. When and where did the Treasurer ever do so Bill? I sure bet this follow up report wasn't put on the NSWCA website, but if I am wrong, prove me wrong. Also, I note that you failed to address the the issue of 60 to 70 former members who decided not to re-join the NSWCA. Your response would be appreciated, or else just concede that they were lost under your leadership and we can move on. Thanks Bill, AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-21-2007, 09:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One So you are saying that the NSWCA lost $11,000 last year, and then $3000 the year before that? Were you NSWCA President during both years? What I said was clear and your lack of comprehension isnt my problem. A simple check of the NSWCA website would show you the figures as well as when I was NSWCA President. However since it is Xmas I'll save you the trouble and point out the $11,000 odd loss was in 2006 and the previous year 2005 the NSWCA made a $4,000 odd profit. Also I was Vice-President in 2003 when there was no NSWCA President and have been NSWCA President since 2004. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Okay, so you agree that $11,000 odd was lost, and your big point seems to be that this loss occurred in 2006 and not 2007. If you were president both years, I can't see why you are making such a big deal about that fact. Because what you claimed was not a fact. you claimed the NSWCA lost $11,000 this year. That is not a fact, it was simply wrong. I see where you have as usual edited your post without any such acknowledgement or time stamp. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One after initial post was made When and where did the Treasurer ever do so Bill? I sure bet this follow up report wasn't put on the NSWCA, but if I am wrong, prove me wrong. You fool. If you look further down the AGM minutes you will see that is stated under 4. Treasurer’s Report that the Treasurer's report was presented and circulated to the members at the meeting and that his report was accepted by the meeting. Last edited by Bill Gletsos : 12-21-2007 at 09:36 PM Reason: to respond to AO's editing of his post without any acknowledgement or timestamp

12-21-2007, 10:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Friendliness is OzChess Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Because what you claimed was not a fact. you claimed the NSWCA lost $11,000 this year. That is not a fact, it was simply wrong. I agree. The year I said the NSWCA lost $11,000 was incorrect. But the fact that it had lost $11,000 in a recent year was correct. Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos I see where you have as usual edited your post without any such acknowledgement or time stamp. Yes, I agree, I editted my post. If memory serves, when I was a CC member I could also edit my own posts there. Whats wrong with editting one's own post? Also, I think even ordinary members can edit their posts (possibly) and not leave a edit marker or time stamp, the choice is their's (yours too because you are a member). Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos You fool. If you look further down the AGM minutes you will see that is stated under 4. Treasurer’s Report that the Treasurer's report was presented and circulated to the members at the meeting and that his report was accepted by the meeting. Okay, its there. Like I said if I am wrong prove me wrong, and you did (on that point). No need to get pushy or abusive mate. OzChess is a friendly and constructive forum, where members may disagree, but everyone makes an effort to be courteous. Thanks for your answers, AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-21-2007, 10:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One I agree. The year I said the NSWCA lost $11,000 was incorrect. But the fact that it had lost $11,000 in a recent year was correct. Yes but you claimed the NSWCA had lost it this year and that was incorrect and it was easily checkable. Once again you made a statement that was false, a habit you have continually had since you started posting on chesschat. The fact the NSWCA had a $11,000 odd loss for 2006 was there for all to see via the 2006 AGM minutes which have been on the NSWCA website for over 10 months. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Yes, I agree, I editted my post. If memory serves when I was a CC member, I could also edit my own posts there. Whats wrong with editting one's own post? Nothing is wrong with editing ones posts, however ordinary posters cannot edit their posts without leaving timestamp. Your editing of your posts on the other hand without any timestamp or editing reason is a major concern. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Also, I think even ordinary members can edit their post and not leave a edit marker or time stamp, the choice is theirs (yours too because you are a member). Incorrect. Although an ordinary poster can choose whether they leave an editing reason or not the ordinary poster cannot stop the timestamp appearing showing that the post was edited and by whom it was edited. Only an admin can evade the timestamp. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Okay, its there. Like I said if I am wrong prove me wrong, and you did (on that point). No need to get pushy or abusive mate. Lets get one thing straight. You are not my mate. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One OzChess is a friendly and constructive forum, where members may disagree, but everyone makes an effort to be courteous. Rubbish. There are derogatory statements posted on this site by one of the owners directed at others.

12-22-2007, 02:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 99	Hi, This will quickly collapse into a meaningless flamewar reminscent of 'over there' unless the personal attacks cease. AO, I agree with Bill insofar as that you should check your facts more thoroughly next time. Please conduct yourselves in a civil manner. Thankyou.

12-22-2007, 11:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Hostile CC Posters Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari Hi, This will quickly collapse into a meaningless flamewar reminscent of 'over there' unless the personal attacks cease. AO, I agree with Bill insofar as that you should check your facts more thoroughly next time. Please conduct yourselves in a civil manner. Thankyou. I did check my facts to some extent. I had a discussion with a former heavy in NSW Chess Admnistration and my postings reflected what I was told. I probably should have done further checks, but I did get the information from a fairly reliable source. Also, I noticed that Bill didn't address is issue of 70 lost members. That's probably because my source was correct about that. Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Although an ordinary poster can choose whether they leave an editing reason or not the ordinary poster cannot stop the timestamp appearing showing that the post was edited and by whom it was edited. Only an admin can evade the timestamp. This is not entirely true. If a poster who is an ordinary member is the last poster in a thread, he or she can copy the post, delete it, re-paste the post, and then make edits. This would have the effect of editting a post without a timestamp. But I can't see why, after admitting that I often edit my own posts, any poster would be concerned about the lack of a timestamp. Everyone is entitled to edit their own posts on OzChess, you don't even need to put a reason in. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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12-22-2007, 12:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One This is not entirely true. If a poster who is an ordinary member is the last poster in a thread, he or she can copy the post, delete it, re-paste the post, and then make edits. This would have the effect of editting a post without a timestamp. The fact that the post was reposted would show to an observant poster the fact that the repost has a different posting time to the posting time of the orginal deleted post. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One But I can't see why, after admitting that I often edit my own posts, any poster would be concerned about the lack of a timestamp. Because you have a habit of changing your posts and changing your meaning without any evidence that it has occurred. Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Everyone is entitled to edit their own posts on OzChess, you don't even need to put a reason in. Yes everyone is entitled to edit their posts, however you changing your posts without a timestamp is a major concern as your veracity is questionable at best.