How OzChess Survives - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 07-15-2010, 12:43 AM

Recently a poster made some unattractive remarks that went beyond the normal bulletin board verbal bare-knuckle fist fight. He was not banned. His post was not deleted, or even edited. The matter was brought to his attention and he thought it better that the remarks be tempered. He edited them. Some of my own posts have been deleted without my permission. I do not squeal about it because I trust others here to have made a prudent judgement regarding social norms.

People obey social norms more than they obey laws. People vote with their feet. That is why this site continues to attract posters and live despite Chess Chat and The Australian Chess Federation trying to starve us to death. While ever the ACF bulletin board is ruled and run by power freaks and reactionary middle class dead wood, who ban and bully posters for petty or fabricated infractions, this site will survive.

**Just2Good** · 07-15-2010, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Recently a poster made some unattractive remarks that went beyond the normal bulletin board verbal bare-knuckle fist fight. He was not banned. His post was not deleted, or even edited. The matter was brought to his attention and he thought it better that the remarks be tempered. He edited them. Some of my own posts have been deleted without my permission. I do not squeal about it because I trust others here to have made a prudent judgement regarding social norms.

People obey social norms more than they obey laws. People vote with their feet. That is why this site continues to attract posters and live despite Chess Chat and The Australian Chess Federation trying to starve us to death. While ever the ACF bulletin board is ruled and run by power freaks and reactionary middle class dead wood, who ban and bully posters for petty or fabricated infractions, this site will survive.

Just to clarify, you had posts deleted on this site? This is news to me. Can you please direct me to the thread so I can further investigate this?

**Iconoclast** · 07-15-2010, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Just to clarify, you had posts deleted on this site? This is news to me. Can you please direct me to the thread so I can further investigate this?

They were in hindsight, not pretty. I cannot remember where they were, but it does not matter. I trust people to keep people on the rails. That is what people should do for each other when prudence would dictate. No investigation necessary on my moderated posts.

**Just2Good** · 07-15-2010, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

They were in hindsight, not pretty. I cannot remember where they were, but it does not matter. I trust people to keep people on the rails. That is what people should do for each other when prudence would dictate. No investigation necessary on my moderated posts.

Okay, I will decline to investigate then. It might be the case that the person who started the thread deleted their first post, which would have the effect of deleting the entire thread including all posts that came after the first post. That's a design flaw of vBulletin, and is automatic - nothing to do with the mods or admins.

Deleting people's posts is not the way OzChess works. If it occurs it is the exception and not the rule. I do not approve of that, I don't believe our moderators do either.

Not only is that the case out of principle, it is also the case as a matter of complacency. Recently AC asked for a post of his to be deleted or edited, and I couldn't really be stuffed. That might not be a feather in my cap, but does go to show that when posts are made on OzChess, they are most of the time left there permanently, and without editing.

**Ehm TO** · 07-15-2010, 06:21 AM

Just because deleting of posts is not something your site prides itself on and does pride itself on not having a distinct set of rules, doesn't mean that other sites that have them and do moderate users will not survive.

**Just2Good** · 07-15-2010, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by jdsingle

Just because deleting of posts is not something your site prides itself on and does pride itself on not having a distinct set of rules, doesn't mean that other sites that have them and do moderate users will not survive.

That's a very good point. In fact, only two weeks out from our third birthday, the health of this forum is amazing and has exceeded anyone's wildest expectations. We have proven that a forum built around free speech, freedom of association, freedom of expression, and most importantly - civility towards members - can thrive even in this day and age!

**Iconoclast** · 07-15-2010, 11:57 AM

This interview has plenty to say about any culture we may try to protect on this site. It speak to particular social pressures being particular to the social contexts. Reason for Embarrassment

**antichrist** · 07-30-2010, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Okay, I will decline to investigate then. It might be the case that the person who started the thread deleted their first post, which would have the effect of deleting the entire thread including all posts that came after the first post. That's a design flaw of vBulletin, and is automatic - nothing to do with the mods or admins.

Deleting people's posts is not the way OzChess works. If it occurs it is the exception and not the rule. I do not approve of that, I don't believe our moderators do either.

Not only is that the case out of principle, it is also the case as a matter of complacency. Recently AC asked for a post of his to be deleted or edited, and I couldn't really be stuffed. That might not be a feather in my cap, but does go to show that when posts are made on OzChess, they are most of the time left there permanently, and without editing.

Even God changed his mind when got sick of his Chosen People in the Old Testament, so inspired the New Testament, sent his only begotten son to be put to death on cross and the rest is history. So God deleted the whole Old Testament. If good enough for God then good enough for us. Aren't you a Christian??

**Just2Good** · 07-30-2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Even God changed his mind when got sick of his Chosen People in the Old Testament, so inspired the New Testament, sent his only begotten son to be put to death on cross and the rest is history. So God deleted the whole Old Testament. If good enough for God then good enough for us. Aren't you a Christian??

We are not changing our minds. We run a different ship than the one your masters on the dark side of the moon run. Here we are tolerant, civil with one another, and not focussed on power for the sake of holding power.

Hopefully over time you will realize this, and see the value in our approach.

**antichrist** · 07-30-2010, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

We are not changing our minds. We run a different ship than the one your masters on the dark side of the moon run. Here we are tolerant, civil with one another, and not focussed on power for the sake of holding power.

Hopefully over time you will realize this, and see the value in our approach.

Listen about ten years ago the environmentalists (with a few dropped out hippies) put on a fundraiser here at Byron for a guy being sued for defamo or something like that. So Ian Cohen, a Byron Bayite, comes along and calls the guy a t... and b.... at the fundraiser where everyone were thought to be civil. But Lo and behold there was a private detective in there with a tape recorded - and those two words that Matt has often used here cost Ian Cohen about 1.1 million big Aussie Dollars. Ian you may know is a Green member of the NSW parliament upper house of Parliament.

So people may appear civil but you don't know what they have in their pocket. Israelis find that out all the time with suicide bombers. And girls also with me.

**antichrist** · 07-30-2010, 02:11 PM

$1m defamation case could bankrupt MP - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ian Cohen called him a thug and bully, of course he was no such thing.

**Just2Good** · 07-30-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

$1m defamation case could bankrupt MP - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ian Cohen called him a thug and bully, of course he was no such thing.

Does this mean people can get blood from a stone? Maybe you should advise your masters on the darkside of the moon about this so they stop their endless whinging about us.

**antichrist** · 07-30-2010, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Does this mean people can get blood from a stone? Maybe you should advise your masters on the darkside of the moon about this so they stop their endless whinging about us.

The Catholic Church have been able to get blood crying from their stone statures of the Blessed Virgin Mary for 500 years - that was how they built the Vatican. And be careful coz Bill may be a Catholic, you don't what is lurking behind him.

As well the RCC can get body and blood of Jesus out of a wafer - not a bad trick either.

**Iconoclast** · 07-30-2010, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

... and those two words that Matt has often used here cost Ian Cohen about 1.1 million

Which two words?

**Axiom** · 07-30-2010, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Which two words?

"thug" and "bully"

07-15-2010, 12:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	How OzChess Survives Recently a poster made some unattractive remarks that went beyond the normal bulletin board verbal bare-knuckle fist fight. He was not banned. His post was not deleted, or even edited. The matter was brought to his attention and he thought it better that the remarks be tempered. He edited them. Some of my own posts have been deleted without my permission. I do not squeal about it because I trust others here to have made a prudent judgement regarding social norms. People obey social norms more than they obey laws. People vote with their feet. That is why this site continues to attract posters and live despite Chess Chat and The Australian Chess Federation trying to starve us to death. While ever the ACF bulletin board is ruled and run by power freaks and reactionary middle class dead wood, who ban and bully posters for petty or fabricated infractions, this site will survive. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-15-2010, 01:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Recently a poster made some unattractive remarks that went beyond the normal bulletin board verbal bare-knuckle fist fight. He was not banned. His post was not deleted, or even edited. The matter was brought to his attention and he thought it better that the remarks be tempered. He edited them. Some of my own posts have been deleted without my permission. I do not squeal about it because I trust others here to have made a prudent judgement regarding social norms. People obey social norms more than they obey laws. People vote with their feet. That is why this site continues to attract posters and live despite Chess Chat and The Australian Chess Federation trying to starve us to death. While ever the ACF bulletin board is ruled and run by power freaks and reactionary middle class dead wood, who ban and bully posters for petty or fabricated infractions, this site will survive. Just to clarify, you had posts deleted on this site? This is news to me. Can you please direct me to the thread so I can further investigate this? __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-15-2010, 02:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Just2Good Just to clarify, you had posts deleted on this site? This is news to me. Can you please direct me to the thread so I can further investigate this? They were in hindsight, not pretty. I cannot remember where they were, but it does not matter. I trust people to keep people on the rails. That is what people should do for each other when prudence would dictate. No investigation necessary on my moderated posts. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals. Last edited by Iconoclast : 07-15-2010 at 02:37 AM Reason: wording

07-15-2010, 04:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast They were in hindsight, not pretty. I cannot remember where they were, but it does not matter. I trust people to keep people on the rails. That is what people should do for each other when prudence would dictate. No investigation necessary on my moderated posts. Okay, I will decline to investigate then. It might be the case that the person who started the thread deleted their first post, which would have the effect of deleting the entire thread including all posts that came after the first post. That's a design flaw of vBulletin, and is automatic - nothing to do with the mods or admins. Deleting people's posts is not the way OzChess works. If it occurs it is the exception and not the rule. I do not approve of that, I don't believe our moderators do either. Not only is that the case out of principle, it is also the case as a matter of complacency. Recently AC asked for a post of his to be deleted or edited, and I couldn't really be stuffed. That might not be a feather in my cap, but does go to show that when posts are made on OzChess, they are most of the time left there permanently, and without editing. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-15-2010, 07:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by jdsingle Just because deleting of posts is not something your site prides itself on and does pride itself on not having a distinct set of rules, doesn't mean that other sites that have them and do moderate users will not survive. That's a very good point. In fact, only two weeks out from our third birthday, the health of this forum is amazing and has exceeded anyone's wildest expectations. We have proven that a forum built around free speech, freedom of association, freedom of expression, and most importantly - civility towards members - can thrive even in this day and age! __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-15-2010, 06:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ehm TO Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 314	Just because deleting of posts is not something your site prides itself on and does pride itself on not having a distinct set of rules, doesn't mean that other sites that have them and do moderate users will not survive.

07-15-2010, 11:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	This interview has plenty to say about any culture we may try to protect on this site. It speak to particular social pressures being particular to the social contexts. Reason for Embarrassment __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-30-2010, 08:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Just2Good Okay, I will decline to investigate then. It might be the case that the person who started the thread deleted their first post, which would have the effect of deleting the entire thread including all posts that came after the first post. That's a design flaw of vBulletin, and is automatic - nothing to do with the mods or admins. Deleting people's posts is not the way OzChess works. If it occurs it is the exception and not the rule. I do not approve of that, I don't believe our moderators do either. Not only is that the case out of principle, it is also the case as a matter of complacency. Recently AC asked for a post of his to be deleted or edited, and I couldn't really be stuffed. That might not be a feather in my cap, but does go to show that when posts are made on OzChess, they are most of the time left there permanently, and without editing. Even God changed his mind when got sick of his Chosen People in the Old Testament, so inspired the New Testament, sent his only begotten son to be put to death on cross and the rest is history. So God deleted the whole Old Testament. If good enough for God then good enough for us. Aren't you a Christian??

07-30-2010, 08:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by antichrist Even God changed his mind when got sick of his Chosen People in the Old Testament, so inspired the New Testament, sent his only begotten son to be put to death on cross and the rest is history. So God deleted the whole Old Testament. If good enough for God then good enough for us. Aren't you a Christian?? We are not changing our minds. We run a different ship than the one your masters on the dark side of the moon run. Here we are tolerant, civil with one another, and not focussed on power for the sake of holding power. Hopefully over time you will realize this, and see the value in our approach. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-30-2010, 08:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Just2Good We are not changing our minds. We run a different ship than the one your masters on the dark side of the moon run. Here we are tolerant, civil with one another, and not focussed on power for the sake of holding power. Hopefully over time you will realize this, and see the value in our approach. Listen about ten years ago the environmentalists (with a few dropped out hippies) put on a fundraiser here at Byron for a guy being sued for defamo or something like that. So Ian Cohen, a Byron Bayite, comes along and calls the guy a t... and b.... at the fundraiser where everyone were thought to be civil. But Lo and behold there was a private detective in there with a tape recorded - and those two words that Matt has often used here cost Ian Cohen about 1.1 million big Aussie Dollars. Ian you may know is a Green member of the NSW parliament upper house of Parliament. So people may appear civil but you don't know what they have in their pocket. Israelis find that out all the time with suicide bombers. And girls also with me.

07-30-2010, 02:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	thug and bully is libel worth 1 mill bucks $1m defamation case could bankrupt MP - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Ian Cohen called him a thug and bully, of course he was no such thing.

07-30-2010, 06:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by antichrist $1m defamation case could bankrupt MP - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Ian Cohen called him a thug and bully, of course he was no such thing. Does this mean people can get blood from a stone? Maybe you should advise your masters on the darkside of the moon about this so they stop their endless whinging about us. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-30-2010, 06:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Just2Good Does this mean people can get blood from a stone? Maybe you should advise your masters on the darkside of the moon about this so they stop their endless whinging about us. The Catholic Church have been able to get blood crying from their stone statures of the Blessed Virgin Mary for 500 years - that was how they built the Vatican. And be careful coz Bill may be a Catholic, you don't what is lurking behind him. As well the RCC can get body and blood of Jesus out of a wafer - not a bad trick either.

07-30-2010, 09:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by antichrist ... and those two words that Matt has often used here cost Ian Cohen about 1.1 million Which two words? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-30-2010, 09:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Which two words? "thug" and "bully" __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

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