Mythbusting in Chess - OzChess

**AzzX** · 01-29-2009, 11:30 PM

In the spirit of Australia's own Mythbusters, Zhigen Lin from Melbourne Australia has made an interesting article discussing specific Chess myths and urban legends.
ChessBase.com - Chess News - Mythbusting in Chess
An extract:

1. Computers will solve the game of chess.
...simply look at the statistics - there are 318,979,564,000 possible ways to play the first four moves of chess. In addition, America's Foundation for Chess found that there were 169,518,829,100,544,000,000,000,000,000 ways to play the first ten moves of chess. For a computer to solve the game of chess, it would have get through every possibility for a whole game, and it would also have to assess every single position correctly.
Assessment: Busted.

A pretty decent read even if you don't agree with some of the points.

**Just2Good** · 01-30-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by AzzX

In the spirit of Australia's own Mythbusters, Zhigen Lin from Melbourne Australia has made an interesting article discussing specific Chess myths and urban legends.
ChessBase.com - Chess News - Mythbusting in Chess
An extract:

A pretty decent read even if you don't agree with some of the points.

Thanks for this resource AzzX. In my opinion chess will never 'be solved', not even by a super computer. However, there is a theory I agree with that if white plays perfectly and black plays perfectly, the game will result in a draw.

The best quote from the article in my opinion is this:

By allowing your opponent to make mistakes, you can exploit their inaccurate moves. And by maximising their possibility of making mistakes, you have more opportunities to exploit them.

Best Regards,

AO

**Dulce** · 02-02-2009, 05:06 AM

n addition, America's Foundation for Chess found that there were 169,518,829,100,544,000,000,000,000,000 ways to play the first ten moves of chess.

That may be a big number to a human but why do i think supercomputers have done more complex logarithms than that?

**AzzX** · 02-03-2009, 09:09 PM

The only way a computer could consistently beat a human player within a reasonable time frame would be via the use of a working Quantum Computer. The science behind Quantum computing will make your head spin. It is difficult even to understand the simplified theory behind it.

**MOZ** · 01-02-2012, 11:47 PM

Kevin Bonham

well it's great that there's such an industry for coaches to earn livings and so many chances for juniors to get good training and improve

Kevin Bonham

on the other hand it seems to make the place, in a chess sense, just ungovernable

Chess Victoria has elections.
The minutes of Executive meetings are published.
Junior chess is fully integrated into the State Organisation rather than being run by a body with little voice at national level.
Groomed the most recent ACF President.

Any other State ticks these boxes?

**MOZ** · 01-03-2012, 08:05 AM

^

Oh dear, KB has taken exception to my defence (^) that chess in Victoria is well governed.

You can read the exact words he uses here.

I introduced 4 metrics that I thought reasonably would give some indication of good governance. And I asked if any other State could match Victoria on those metrics.

The Taswegian's response introduces no different metrics.

Compares with no other State.

And tries to back away from his original 'ungovernable' assessment by saying it was a 'stray' comment.

Surprisingly, he also takes exception to my phrase "Junior chess is fully integrated into the State Organisation".
The facts are ... every single qualifier for the Australian School Teams Championship comes through a Chess Victoria licenced Zonal; without exception. Can NSW claim similar?
Of course, there are other junior events run by other commercial organisations in Victoria, but independent of CV supervision

The Canterbury Junior Chess club Sunday Coaching tourney
The Canterbury Junior Chess club Tuesday Coaching tourney
The zedChess holiday programme
The 'Austalian Chess' holiday Programme
The Chess Kids regionals
The Croydon Chess coaching group
The Noble Park coaching group
The Frankston chess coaching group

just to name a few.
But it stands true, all of those that lead to the Australian National School Teams title are Zonals licenced by CV. That is 'full integration of junior chess with the State body'.

------
But enough of me trying to second guess what KB meant by 'ungovernable'.
Here is an offer, in the spirit of the new year and moving forward:

If KB gives me a clear definition of the activities within the Constitution of CV that he sees as currently ungovernable then I will guarantee to table this on the agenda of the next CV Executive meeting where it will be considered by
L. Sandler (IM)
K Stead (FA)
NY Wong (FA)
D Johansen (GM)
G Szuveges (Pres MCC)
T Stanning (awarded best post on chesschat 2003)

If Victorian chess is ungovernable, in the view of an ACF Official, then that needs to be followed through.
If the allegation turns out to be unsupported sufficiently I would anticipate the moderator panel here would look at the status of the poster.

**antichrist** · 01-03-2012, 09:06 AM

But what about when your mob could not find an ACF delegate - pretty bad look I would say. If you have that trouble I will do for you, learn the ropes pretty quickly. I would love to sit opposite KB and Denis and Bill and whisper sweet nothings in their ears

**Iconoclast** · 01-03-2012, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by MOZ

The Taswegian's response introduces no different metrics.
Compares with no other State.
And tries to back away from his original 'ungovernable' assessment by saying it was a 'stray' comment.

As I said HERE Tasmania's chess dynamo is no dynamo at all.

**MOZ** · 01-03-2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

But what about when your mob could not find an ACF delegate - pretty bad look I would say. If you have that trouble I will do for you, learn the ropes pretty quickly. I would love to sit opposite KB and Denis and Bill and whisper sweet nothings in their ears

Gee, thanks for the offer a/c; I think you would bring a lot to public view.
Tempting as it is to put you forward, we have had a delegate for the past 4 years, and continues into 2012. ... so NO VACANCY sign is out on this one.

KB has declined to expand on 'ungovernable', it just now remains for fg7 to judge if this is a smoking gun issue.

01-29-2009, 11:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
AzzX Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 109	Mythbusting in Chess In the spirit of Australia's own Mythbusters, Zhigen Lin from Melbourne Australia has made an interesting article discussing specific Chess myths and urban legends. ChessBase.com - Chess News - Mythbusting in Chess An extract: 1. Computers will solve the game of chess. ...simply look at the statistics - there are 318,979,564,000 possible ways to play the first four moves of chess. In addition, America's Foundation for Chess found that there were 169,518,829,100,544,000,000,000,000,000 ways to play the first ten moves of chess. For a computer to solve the game of chess, it would have get through every possibility for a whole game, and it would also have to assess every single position correctly. Assessment: Busted. A pretty decent read even if you don't agree with some of the points. __________________ azzx.org ozsource

01-30-2009, 07:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by AzzX In the spirit of Australia's own Mythbusters, Zhigen Lin from Melbourne Australia has made an interesting article discussing specific Chess myths and urban legends. ChessBase.com - Chess News - Mythbusting in Chess An extract: A pretty decent read even if you don't agree with some of the points. Thanks for this resource AzzX. In my opinion chess will never 'be solved', not even by a super computer. However, there is a theory I agree with that if white plays perfectly and black plays perfectly, the game will result in a draw. The best quote from the article in my opinion is this: By allowing your opponent to make mistakes, you can exploit their inaccurate moves. And by maximising their possibility of making mistakes, you have more opportunities to exploit them. Best Regards, AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

02-03-2009, 09:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
AzzX Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 109	The only way a computer could consistently beat a human player within a reasonable time frame would be via the use of a working Quantum Computer. The science behind Quantum computing will make your head spin. It is difficult even to understand the simplified theory behind it. __________________ azzx.org ozsource

01-02-2012, 11:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	From the chesschat shoutbox 2/1/12 talking about Victoria. Kevin Bonham well it's great that there's such an industry for coaches to earn livings and so many chances for juniors to get good training and improve Kevin Bonham on the other hand it seems to make the place, in a chess sense, just ungovernable Chess Victoria has elections. The minutes of Executive meetings are published. Junior chess is fully integrated into the State Organisation rather than being run by a body with little voice at national level. Groomed the most recent ACF President. Any other State ticks these boxes? __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

01-03-2012, 08:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Junior chess is well run by CV. Just look at the results and titles. ^ Oh dear, KB has taken exception to my defence (^) that chess in Victoria is well governed. You can read the exact words he uses here. I introduced 4 metrics that I thought reasonably would give some indication of good governance. And I asked if any other State could match Victoria on those metrics. The Taswegian's response introduces no different metrics. Compares with no other State. And tries to back away from his original 'ungovernable' assessment by saying it was a 'stray' comment. Surprisingly, he also takes exception to my phrase "Junior chess is fully integrated into the State Organisation". The facts are ... every single qualifier for the Australian School Teams Championship comes through a Chess Victoria licenced Zonal; without exception. Can NSW claim similar? Of course, there are other junior events run by other commercial organisations in Victoria, but independent of CV supervision The Canterbury Junior Chess club Sunday Coaching tourney The Canterbury Junior Chess club Tuesday Coaching tourney The zedChess holiday programme The 'Austalian Chess' holiday Programme The Chess Kids regionals The Croydon Chess coaching group The Noble Park coaching group The Frankston chess coaching group just to name a few. But it stands true, all of those that lead to the Australian National School Teams title are Zonals licenced by CV. That is 'full integration of junior chess with the State body'. ------ But enough of me trying to second guess what KB meant by 'ungovernable'. Here is an offer, in the spirit of the new year and moving forward: If KB gives me a clear definition of the activities within the Constitution of CV that he sees as currently ungovernable then I will guarantee to table this on the agenda of the next CV Executive meeting where it will be considered by L. Sandler (IM) K Stead (FA) NY Wong (FA) D Johansen (GM) G Szuveges (Pres MCC) T Stanning (awarded best post on chesschat 2003) If Victorian chess is ungovernable, in the view of an ACF Official, then that needs to be followed through. If the allegation turns out to be unsupported sufficiently I would anticipate the moderator panel here would look at the status of the poster. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game. Last edited by MOZ : 01-03-2012 at 04:40 PM Reason: Changed LM qualification

02-02-2009, 05:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	n addition, America's Foundation for Chess found that there were 169,518,829,100,544,000,000,000,000,000 ways to play the first ten moves of chess. That may be a big number to a human but why do i think supercomputers have done more complex logarithms than that?

01-03-2012, 09:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	But what about when your mob could not find an ACF delegate - pretty bad look I would say. If you have that trouble I will do for you, learn the ropes pretty quickly. I would love to sit opposite KB and Denis and Bill and whisper sweet nothings in their ears

01-03-2012, 09:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by MOZ The Taswegian's response introduces no different metrics. Compares with no other State. And tries to back away from his original 'ungovernable' assessment by saying it was a 'stray' comment. As I said HERE Tasmania's chess dynamo is no dynamo at all. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

01-03-2012, 12:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by antichrist But what about when your mob could not find an ACF delegate - pretty bad look I would say. If you have that trouble I will do for you, learn the ropes pretty quickly. I would love to sit opposite KB and Denis and Bill and whisper sweet nothings in their ears Gee, thanks for the offer a/c; I think you would bring a lot to public view. Tempting as it is to put you forward, we have had a delegate for the past 4 years, and continues into 2012. ... so NO VACANCY sign is out on this one. KB has declined to expand on 'ungovernable', it just now remains for fg7 to judge if this is a smoking gun issue. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: