Chess and School Education - OzChess

**MOZ** · 08-13-2007, 11:55 AM

Current link to a page in The Age >

Available here at the moment.

If link not accessible then read here >

Chess-at-school-a-shrewd-but-contested-move

VICTORIAN students would be offered chess coaching to boost their thinking skills under an idea being pushed from within senior State Government ranks.

Evan Thornley, Premier John Brumby's parliamentary secretary for national reform and innovation, wants the Government to provide more chess programs across the public school system.

According to the former businessman, the move would give students the chance to compete on "a pretty level playing field" against private schools or other students from wealthier backgrounds.

But while chess coaches praised the idea, others in education circles raised concerns it would clutter an already over-crowded school curriculum.

Mr Thornley declined to comment yesterday.

In a recent speech to Parliament, he said the benefits were twofold: children would learn to think more strategically and build their self-esteem, while recent immigrants from Russia or Eastern Europe, where chess is a popular sport, could be offered work as coaches.

"The game of chess is a terrific way for young people to learn skills of strategy, logic, planning and other important intellectual disciplines in a fun, friendly and mildly competitive environment," Mr Thornley said.

"It is a great way for many young people to build their self-esteem, because they quickly become capable of beating all the adults in the room … which is not something they can often achieve in many other fields until later in life."

Some schools, such as Doncaster Gardens Primary School, MacRobertson Girls High School, Flemington Primary School and Brighton Grammar School, already offer chess programs to students.

Some schools provide one-hour classes, while others offer a recreational activity outside classroom hours.

David Cordover, director of ChessKids, which offers coaching services to 430 public and private schools in Victoria, said even kindergarten children were getting lessons.

Mr Cordover said "it would go a long way" if the Government provided more resources for chess coaching right across the education system.

But Victorian Principals Association president Fred Ackerman said the school curriculum was already too crowded with "add-on" subjects.

A recent paper by the Australian Primary Principals Association called for making English, maths, science and history the only four "core" subjects in schools, with other subjects and programs to be given less status.

Nicepicis viewable at the original link.

**Spiny Norman** · 08-13-2007, 03:19 PM

There seem to be a lot of kids who are doing chess as an "after school" subject, based on observing our friend's kids (not people involved at all in the chess scene). I think its a very good development.

Let me know if you hear of any serious lobbying efforts on this front, as I have a few useful contacts that have reach within both state and federal governments that I might be able to leverage.

**Gendo Ikari** · 08-13-2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

A recent paper by the Australian Primary Principals Association called for making English, maths, science and history the only four "core" subjects in schools, with other subjects and programs to be given less status.

Um, history? Are you joking? There's one to scrap already and fill with an elective.

**Iconoclast** · 08-13-2007, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari

Um, history? Are you joking? There's one to scrap already and fill with an elective.

Um, chess? Are you joking? There's one to avoid already and take an elective like: computer literacy, commerce, or extention science.

I would much rather have a population that "knew" history - how it is used, abused, manufactured and revised - than have a thousand GMs.

As much as I understand the pluses of playing chess, there is what is called an "opportunity cost." Every hour spent on chess is an hour that is not being spent on maths science and english. Believe me when I say that the standard in these areas is dropping year by year BECAUSE they are competing with non-core areas.

Chess is at best, a great sport for the brain - exciting and fun. It can be also be used to teach the importance of concentration and personal responsibility. And, well, that is all.

**Gendo Ikari** · 08-14-2007, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Um, chess? Are you joking? There's one to avoid already and take an elective like: computer literacy, commerce, or extention science.

I would much rather have a population that "knew" history - how it is used, abused, manufactured and revised - than have a thousand GMs.

As much as I understand the pluses of playing chess, there is what is called an "opportunity cost." Every hour spent on chess is an hour that is not being spent on maths science and english. Believe me when I say that the standard in these areas is dropping year by year BECAUSE they are competing with non-core areas.

Chess is at best, a great sport for the brain - exciting and fun. It can be also be used to teach the importance of concentration and personal responsibility. And, well, that is all.

I agree with you on most of those points Icono. The educational facets of history that deal with process, learning and research skills are very valuable; rather, I'd object to a curriculum that models itself on the U.S. education system that bombards its students with American History (obviously at the expense of geography and literacy as can often be seen).

And yes, chess is simply another extra-curricular activity. I don't know about concentration and responsibility but certainly the ability to think ahead and analyse are beneficial qualities one can glean from chess.

**Just2Good** · 08-14-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari

And yes, chess is simply another extra-curricular activity. I don't know about concentration and responsibility but certainly the ability to think ahead and analyse are beneficial qualities one can glean from chess.

As Grandmaster Botvinnik once said, Chess and Math are cousins!

**Euro-Chess** · 08-14-2007, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

As Grandmaster Botvinnik once said, Chess and Math are cousins!

Chess has been taught in schools in several European countries for many years now. I think one thing is certain, it does not harm children to learn the game early.

Unfortunately, however, girls don't seem inclined to take up the game at the same rate as boys.

**Jaydon** · 03-09-2009, 06:18 PM

Just thought I'd bump a really old thread..

**Xhaiden** · 03-16-2009, 12:19 AM

Now I'm not sure how things are as far as the schools in Australia but in the United States I could never imagine this being a part of the school day in our current system. I teach music and even the core subjects have trouble seeing their kids as much as they need due to all the testing and surveys these kids have to take. I know a lot of schools, not in my area, but other areas that offer chess as an after school club which usually has a pretty good participation rate, even with girls. I just couldn't imagine this being a part of the core day, at least in the US.

**Calvin** · 03-16-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Xhaiden

Now I'm not sure how things are as far as the schools in Australia but in the United States I could never imagine this being a part of the school day in our current system. I teach music and even the core subjects have trouble seeing their kids as much as they need due to all the testing and surveys these kids have to take. I know a lot of schools, not in my area, but other areas that offer chess as an after school club which usually has a pretty good participation rate, even with girls. I just couldn't imagine this being a part of the core day, at least in the US.

Perhaps that is why the United States and Australia usually lag behind other countries in terms of educational standards, especially compared to Singapore.

**Xhaiden** · 03-16-2009, 09:54 PM

All the testing and surveys and things like that in my opinion is definitely a big reason. The other piece I believe is that teachers are being told what to teach which partly is okay but the issue is what they are being told is to teach 20 things and just have the basics of each covered if that much instead of maybe teaching 10 things to a high degree. We have really lost site of perfecting the basics. Anyway, don't want to pull this too off-topic..lol.

**cume** · 04-25-2009, 03:37 PM

Kids who refuse to do sport can go and play chess instead
So many kids who sit around and do nothing during sport might as well use their brain skills

**Calvin** · 04-25-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by cume

Kids who refuse to do sport can go and play chess instead
So many kids who sit around and do nothing during sport might as well use their brain skills

I think sport is better because it helps kids build team skills. Chess is too individualistic, but I think chess can be taught maybe as an academic subject like history or maths.

**cume** · 04-26-2009, 10:07 PM

That is true.
I think Chess could make maths fun
not sure how it would be part of history though

**Jaydon** · 05-08-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Calvin

I think sport is better because it helps kids build team skills. Chess is too individualistic, but I think chess can be taught maybe as an academic subject like history or maths.

Hmmm. I also have to disagree that chess could be used as a supplement to sport. Eespecially with Australia being the fattest? country in the world now the kids really need to be more pro-active and team sport is a good, fun way to acheive this. As for it being taught as an acadmeic subject, well I'd certainly take it as a bludge lesson!! but I don't think that will ever really be considered.

08-13-2007, 11:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Chess and School Education Current link to a page in The Age > Available here at the moment. If link not accessible then read here > Chess-at-school-a-shrewd-but-contested-move VICTORIAN students would be offered chess coaching to boost their thinking skills under an idea being pushed from within senior State Government ranks. Evan Thornley, Premier John Brumby's parliamentary secretary for national reform and innovation, wants the Government to provide more chess programs across the public school system. According to the former businessman, the move would give students the chance to compete on "a pretty level playing field" against private schools or other students from wealthier backgrounds. But while chess coaches praised the idea, others in education circles raised concerns it would clutter an already over-crowded school curriculum. Mr Thornley declined to comment yesterday. In a recent speech to Parliament, he said the benefits were twofold: children would learn to think more strategically and build their self-esteem, while recent immigrants from Russia or Eastern Europe, where chess is a popular sport, could be offered work as coaches. "The game of chess is a terrific way for young people to learn skills of strategy, logic, planning and other important intellectual disciplines in a fun, friendly and mildly competitive environment," Mr Thornley said. "It is a great way for many young people to build their self-esteem, because they quickly become capable of beating all the adults in the room … which is not something they can often achieve in many other fields until later in life." Some schools, such as Doncaster Gardens Primary School, MacRobertson Girls High School, Flemington Primary School and Brighton Grammar School, already offer chess programs to students. Some schools provide one-hour classes, while others offer a recreational activity outside classroom hours. David Cordover, director of ChessKids, which offers coaching services to 430 public and private schools in Victoria, said even kindergarten children were getting lessons. Mr Cordover said "it would go a long way" if the Government provided more resources for chess coaching right across the education system. But Victorian Principals Association president Fred Ackerman said the school curriculum was already too crowded with "add-on" subjects. A recent paper by the Australian Primary Principals Association called for making English, maths, science and history the only four "core" subjects in schools, with other subjects and programs to be given less status. Nicepicis viewable at the original link. Last edited by MOZ : 08-13-2007 at 12:04 PM

08-13-2007, 05:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 99	Originally Posted by MOZ A recent paper by the Australian Primary Principals Association called for making English, maths, science and history the only four "core" subjects in schools, with other subjects and programs to be given less status. Um, history? Are you joking? There's one to scrap already and fill with an elective.

08-13-2007, 11:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari Um, history? Are you joking? There's one to scrap already and fill with an elective. Um, chess? Are you joking? There's one to avoid already and take an elective like: computer literacy, commerce, or extention science. I would much rather have a population that "knew" history - how it is used, abused, manufactured and revised - than have a thousand GMs. As much as I understand the pluses of playing chess, there is what is called an "opportunity cost." Every hour spent on chess is an hour that is not being spent on maths science and english. Believe me when I say that the standard in these areas is dropping year by year BECAUSE they are competing with non-core areas. Chess is at best, a great sport for the brain - exciting and fun. It can be also be used to teach the importance of concentration and personal responsibility. And, well, that is all.

08-14-2007, 06:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
Gendo Ikari Director Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 99	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Um, chess? Are you joking? There's one to avoid already and take an elective like: computer literacy, commerce, or extention science. I would much rather have a population that "knew" history - how it is used, abused, manufactured and revised - than have a thousand GMs. As much as I understand the pluses of playing chess, there is what is called an "opportunity cost." Every hour spent on chess is an hour that is not being spent on maths science and english. Believe me when I say that the standard in these areas is dropping year by year BECAUSE they are competing with non-core areas. Chess is at best, a great sport for the brain - exciting and fun. It can be also be used to teach the importance of concentration and personal responsibility. And, well, that is all. I agree with you on most of those points Icono. The educational facets of history that deal with process, learning and research skills are very valuable; rather, I'd object to a curriculum that models itself on the U.S. education system that bombards its students with American History (obviously at the expense of geography and literacy as can often be seen). And yes, chess is simply another extra-curricular activity. I don't know about concentration and responsibility but certainly the ability to think ahead and analyse are beneficial qualities one can glean from chess.

08-14-2007, 06:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Gendo Ikari And yes, chess is simply another extra-curricular activity. I don't know about concentration and responsibility but certainly the ability to think ahead and analyse are beneficial qualities one can glean from chess. As Grandmaster Botvinnik once said, Chess and Math are cousins!

08-13-2007, 03:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Spiny Norman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 224	There seem to be a lot of kids who are doing chess as an "after school" subject, based on observing our friend's kids (not people involved at all in the chess scene). I think its a very good development. Let me know if you hear of any serious lobbying efforts on this front, as I have a few useful contacts that have reach within both state and federal governments that I might be able to leverage.

08-14-2007, 10:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 126	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One As Grandmaster Botvinnik once said, Chess and Math are cousins! Chess has been taught in schools in several European countries for many years now. I think one thing is certain, it does not harm children to learn the game early. Unfortunately, however, girls don't seem inclined to take up the game at the same rate as boys.

03-09-2009, 06:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Just thought I'd bump a really old thread..

03-16-2009, 12:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
Xhaiden Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 11	Now I'm not sure how things are as far as the schools in Australia but in the United States I could never imagine this being a part of the school day in our current system. I teach music and even the core subjects have trouble seeing their kids as much as they need due to all the testing and surveys these kids have to take. I know a lot of schools, not in my area, but other areas that offer chess as an after school club which usually has a pretty good participation rate, even with girls. I just couldn't imagine this being a part of the core day, at least in the US.

03-16-2009, 12:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 268	Originally Posted by Xhaiden Now I'm not sure how things are as far as the schools in Australia but in the United States I could never imagine this being a part of the school day in our current system. I teach music and even the core subjects have trouble seeing their kids as much as they need due to all the testing and surveys these kids have to take. I know a lot of schools, not in my area, but other areas that offer chess as an after school club which usually has a pretty good participation rate, even with girls. I just couldn't imagine this being a part of the core day, at least in the US. Perhaps that is why the United States and Australia usually lag behind other countries in terms of educational standards, especially compared to Singapore.

03-16-2009, 09:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
Xhaiden Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 11	All the testing and surveys and things like that in my opinion is definitely a big reason. The other piece I believe is that teachers are being told what to teach which partly is okay but the issue is what they are being told is to teach 20 things and just have the basics of each covered if that much instead of maybe teaching 10 things to a high degree. We have really lost site of perfecting the basics. Anyway, don't want to pull this too off-topic..lol.

04-25-2009, 03:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
cume Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New South Wales Posts: 94	Kids who refuse to do sport can go and play chess instead So many kids who sit around and do nothing during sport might as well use their brain skills

04-25-2009, 05:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 268	Originally Posted by cume Kids who refuse to do sport can go and play chess instead So many kids who sit around and do nothing during sport might as well use their brain skills I think sport is better because it helps kids build team skills. Chess is too individualistic, but I think chess can be taught maybe as an academic subject like history or maths.

04-26-2009, 10:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
cume Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New South Wales Posts: 94	That is true. I think Chess could make maths fun not sure how it would be part of history though

05-08-2009, 06:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Calvin I think sport is better because it helps kids build team skills. Chess is too individualistic, but I think chess can be taught maybe as an academic subject like history or maths. Hmmm. I also have to disagree that chess could be used as a supplement to sport. Eespecially with Australia being the fattest? country in the world now the kids really need to be more pro-active and team sport is a good, fun way to acheive this. As for it being taught as an acadmeic subject, well I'd certainly take it as a bludge lesson!! but I don't think that will ever really be considered.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: