Chess Brothers expelled from Sydney Grammar - Page 2 - OzChess

**Firegoat7** · 12-07-2011, 12:40 AM

Greetings,

Originally Posted by Bonham

"During the unauthorised absence of Kevin and Rowan, two boys replaced them in the School team of four which took part in the State Chess Finals. This team was successful and will be maintained for the National Finals to be held at the end of the term.

If this statement is true, which I have no reason at the moment to doubt, then... the boys missed the State Final because of being at the World Championship. Furthermore, these Sydney tournaments are knock out in nature, so every match leads to life or death, thus they are all qualifying events.Which ought to be placed in context with my conversation with Kerry, who is discussing the Australian National final..

If true, this is poor logistical scheduling by the State and National chess authorities because they ought to understand that these events should never clash. The exact same thing occurred two years ago in Victoria, where Zacharay Loh missed the State finals in Victoria for International selection.

Originally Posted by Bonham

I think firegoat in the other place has slightly misunderstood #93, or else understood it correctly but slightly mis-expressed that understanding. What the boys missed was the "state final" which determines qualification to the ASTC. However they apparently played in the four previous knockout stages (these are local finals culminating in the metro final), some of which I am arguing were probably stronger than the "state final" that they missed.

I really dislike the way Kevin Bonham deliberately makes this a personal argument. It is difficult enough to keep the argument in context when it is constantly evolving between people on this forum, let alone on the other forum. But, it is made much worse when 1) AC quotes something I never said 2) Kevin addresses points that I never made and 3) The semantics of the word "qualifier" is conveniently ignored for triumphalism.

BTW Why is the NSW chess association not coping more heat for mucking up here? Why are the NSW players ignoring this part of the equation? The boys certainly could never play in the State finals and World Championships at the same time!

**Iconoclast** · 12-07-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

BTW Why is the NSW chess association not coping more heat for mucking up here? Why are the NSW players ignoring this part of the equation? The boys certainly could never play in the State finals and World Championships at the same time!

This is junior chess, not GMs going for money. I do not think that a regional; or even a state championship needs to mesh with the World Championships. Any junior going to the worlds is not that worried about a state comp, they are sniffing around the Nationals.

BTW, why are we banging on about this aspect of a mole hill? Surely the big story is how if this was swimming or football the little buggers would still be competing for the school. The Sydney Grammar principal needs a few choice gobbies landed on his dial.

**antichrist** · 12-07-2011, 05:17 PM

The laws of chess do not permit a free choice you have to move whether you like it or not.

by Ms Hardwick chess co-ordinator for the school

Was this aimed at the brothers? IF SO WHAT A SLAP TO THE BACK OF HEAD ON THEIR WAY OUT

**The Seeing** · 12-07-2011, 05:24 PM

<--- That's Sydney Grammar School in the background , in case you were wondering.

**Firegoat7** · 12-07-2011, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

BTW, why are we banging on about this aspect of a mole hill? Surely the big story is how if this was swimming or football the little buggers would still be competing for the school. The Sydney Grammar principal needs a few choice gobbies landed on his dial.

To get selected to represent Australia at junior level you need to perform well at events like the Australian schools championship. The state finals are qualifiers for these National events. It makes no sense to schedule a state final at the same time as a junior World Championship.

Furthermore, it would be a big step in the right direction if the State and National chess bodies co-ordinated their dates so that the best players could compete. When the administrators of chess in this country start to plan professionally, schools will toe the line. In essence I have argued the same point many times in that it would be better for Australian chess if everybody relied on merit instead of selection.

Finally, if schools are going to offer scholarships for chess then they ought to bring honor to schools. Would it not be better for all parties if the players could represent their schools with pride instead of having to miss important events for individual development?

**Iconoclast** · 12-07-2011, 08:17 PM

I have not gone to the trouble of checking the calenders. However, if selection is based on championship results, then the states need to be meshing. If they do not they should shoot themselves in the head. Really, they should just kill themselves ....... or resign ........ or spit into each other's mouths until they drown on expectorant, which would be a murder-suicide .......... nice result.

12-07-2011, 12:40 AM	#16 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Greetings, Originally Posted by Bonham "*During* the unauthorised absence of Kevin and Rowan, two boys replaced them in the School team of four which took part in the State Chess Finals. This team was successful and will be maintained for the National Finals to be held at the end of the term. If this statement is true, which I have no reason at the moment to doubt, then... the boys missed the State Final because of being at the World Championship. Furthermore, these Sydney tournaments are knock out in nature, so every match leads to life or death, thus they are all qualifying events.Which ought to be placed in context with my conversation with Kerry, who is discussing the Australian National final.. If true, this is poor logistical scheduling by the State and National chess authorities because they ought to understand that these events should never clash. The exact same thing occurred two years ago in Victoria, where Zacharay Loh missed the State finals in Victoria for International selection. Originally Posted by Bonham I think firegoat in the other place has slightly misunderstood #93, or else understood it correctly but slightly mis-expressed that understanding. What the boys missed was the "state final" which determines qualification to the ASTC. However they apparently played in the four previous knockout stages (these are local finals culminating in the metro final), some of which I am arguing were probably stronger than the "state final" that they missed. I really dislike the way Kevin Bonham deliberately makes this a personal argument. It is difficult enough to keep the argument in context when it is constantly evolving between people on this forum, let alone on the other forum. But, it is made much worse when 1) AC quotes something I never said 2) Kevin addresses points that I never made and 3) The semantics of the word "qualifier" is conveniently ignored for triumphalism. BTW Why is the NSW chess association not coping more heat for mucking up here? Why are the NSW players ignoring this part of the equation? The boys certainly could never play in the State finals and World Championships at the same time! __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

12-07-2011, 05:14 PM	#17 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 BTW Why is the NSW chess association not coping more heat for mucking up here? Why are the NSW players ignoring this part of the equation? The boys certainly could never play in the State finals and World Championships at the same time! This is junior chess, not GMs going for money. I do not think that a regional; or even a state championship needs to mesh with the World Championships. Any junior going to the worlds is not that worried about a state comp, they are sniffing around the Nationals. BTW, why are we banging on about this aspect of a mole hill? Surely the big story is how if this was swimming or football the little buggers would still be competing for the school. The Sydney Grammar principal needs a few choice gobbies landed on his dial. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

12-07-2011, 05:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
The Seeing Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 263	Riot Warrior <--- That's Sydney Grammar School in the background , in case you were wondering. Last edited by The Seeing : 12-07-2011 at 09:31 PM

12-07-2011, 07:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by Iconoclast BTW, why are we banging on about this aspect of a mole hill? Surely the big story is how if this was swimming or football the little buggers would still be competing for the school. The Sydney Grammar principal needs a few choice gobbies landed on his dial. To get selected to represent Australia at junior level you need to perform well at events like the Australian schools championship. The state finals are qualifiers for these National events. It makes no sense to schedule a state final at the same time as a junior World Championship. Furthermore, it would be a big step in the right direction if the State and National chess bodies co-ordinated their dates so that the best players could compete. When the administrators of chess in this country start to plan professionally, schools will toe the line. In essence I have argued the same point many times in that it would be better for Australian chess if everybody relied on merit instead of selection. Finally, if schools are going to offer scholarships for chess then they ought to bring honor to schools. Would it not be better for all parties if the players could represent their schools with pride instead of having to miss important events for individual development? __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

12-07-2011, 08:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	I have not gone to the trouble of checking the calenders. However, if selection is based on championship results, then the states need to be meshing. If they do not they should shoot themselves in the head. Really, they should just kill themselves ....... or resign ........ or spit into each other's mouths until they drown on expectorant, which would be a murder-suicide .......... nice result. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

12-07-2011, 05:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	The laws of chess do not permit a free choice you have to move whether you like it or not. by Ms Hardwick chess co-ordinator for the school Was this aimed at the brothers? IF SO WHAT A SLAP TO THE BACK OF HEAD ON THEIR WAY OUT

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