rob

I hope that if the ACF ever move away from Glicko that they change to a similar rating system such as the one below:

Maris Rating System

a) similar rating changes to Glicko
b) very easy to calculate rating changes – you can simply work them out in your head
c) reduces the affect of under-rated juniors and avoids depressing deflation that has required adjustments

a) The attached excel file has 8 scenarios with comparisons for each of the 5 RD’s (!!, !, blank, ?, ??) – that is 40 comparisons with Barry Cox’s Glicko calculator (I realise that Glicko 2 is currently used). The results are similar: within 2 points for the 16 examples with reliable ratings (!! & !).

The values used for RD are:

RD RDV
!! 30
! 15
Blank 8
? 4
?? 2.5

b) The very easy to calculate method is:
Rat Per = Op Rat +/- 400
Rel RP = Rat Per - Prev Rat
Rat Ch = Rel RP / RDV (the attached excel file shows this calculation for each comparison)

For example 1500!! wins against 1400:
1400+400=1800
1800-1500=300
300/30=10

Note to prevent the loss of rating points when winning against much lower opponents the following applies: if Pre Rat - Opp Rat > 370 then Opp Rat = Pre Rat – 370

c) What has been happening?
There is a continuous flow of juniors that have significant rating gains before they stop playing. For each of these junior rating increases, much of the rating points gained cause losses to seniors (except where they are playing in junior only events).

To reduce the affect of this, the RD of juniors should be kept flexible (RD: blank, ?, ??). This enables junior ratings to change more rapidly and far less seniors would suffer from their gains. For example, a 1300 junior win against a 1500!! senior. The senior will lose 20 points. As per the attached, the junior will only gain 20 points if !!, 40 if ! but will gain 75 if RD=blank, 150 if ? and 240 if ??.

Any comments welcome on a,b, or c

Attached Files

RM rat.xls (26.5 KB, 1 views)

antichrist

now FG now is your chance to come good and come up positive

Iconoclast

Perfectly true. Unfortunately Gletsos has nothing in his toolbox to model it.

Your method attempts to cope by keeping junior RDs high.

I would buy it because of its simplicity and transparency.

__________________
The individual is hopeless without the group.
The group is hopeless without its individuals.

rob

Keeping junior RDs high seems best for everyone (seniors and juniors), in my humble opinion.

The English Chess Federation have used a similar simplistic and transparent rating system for many years (it was devised in 1958 and was in use when I started playing in 1980).

I would not sell it because the best things in life are free

Although the excel file shows the calculations and RD values, I have not yet provided the method to determine the RD values for seniors and juniors. I shall provide this shortly - more simplicity and transparency.

Just2Good

But why is it necessary to tweak the Glicko at all? Why not use it and apply it evenly to all players as is done on FICS?

My overall preference is ELO because to some extent Glicko discourages participation. For instance, a player who has played a lot over the past two or three months will have a low RD, so if they start struggling the best way for them to regain lost points is to wait until their RD goes back up (about 6 to 12 months), and then have a couple really good tournaments.

With ELO you don't have that problem.

__________________
.
"The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

~ Isaiah Berlin ~

ChessGuru

JTG - you have hit the nail on the head. It discourages participation.... I've been thinking about this a bit recently.

A rating should encourage and reward certain behaviours. Those behaviours we want to encourage in players are
a) playing more often
b) playing in certain events (eg. Vic Champs)
c) ? what else ?

I've been thinking recently that each player should have 2 numbers... a glicko rating (a "true" and accurate measure of your ability) and also an Activity Ranking or something like that....something which you can give up for 20 years, come back and still be "gold class" because you were once before.... then if your rating crashes by 1000 points in your first tournament you're not totally discouraged because you are still a "gold class" player....

Then give points for participation, extra points for State Champs or whatever you like...

antichrist

for purpose of entering tourneys where certain ratings are a prerequisite maybe a fraction of their highest-ever rating can be added on to their now lower rating, maybe a quarter, that is the difference of their highest ever rating and their current rating.

Just2Good

Thanks! The powers that be on the other forum think I am clueless.
The Canadian Chess Federation used to award one point to a player per game they played. So if you played an 8 game weekender and scored even against 8 players with the same rating as yourself, your rating would go up by 8 points.

__________________
.
"The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

~ Isaiah Berlin ~

rob

It is not satisfactory for many players to gradually lose points then to be given what seems like charity points to compensate. I think that avoiding the deflation is the best incentive to encourage players.

I suppose that many people in Australia expect that a rating system has to be complex as they are only used to Glicko and FIDE. Others are aware that simple rating systems can be satisfactory - such as the English one and those people create for juniors. I can recall as a keen teen I used to enjoy working out how my rating was going.

I have included a worksheet in the excel file that determines the method for assigning RD's for seniors and juniors.

Attached Files

RM rat.xls (31.5 KB, 0 views)

Firegoat7

A lot of Australian chess players prefer the older system. I certainly used to enjoy working out my own rating. I know both Grant and I used to calculate performance for our friends during tournament and it adds a bit of rivalry and fun. It also helped to plan tournament runs since you know how many points you need to get every rating session to hold your rating. Before you had to actually travel to increase your rating. Now under Glicko you can take a year off from OTB chess, play online and wait for your rating to reset every 12 months.

__________________
"...What I meant?

Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public.

What they meant?

Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

antichrist

Barry's Glicko Calculators (was Question For Barry Cox) - Page 5 - Chess Chat - Australia's Premier Chess Forum

here is the program by RW