2 Knights Opening - OzChess

**Dulce** · 01-26-2009, 07:25 AM

I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage.

**Just2Good** · 01-26-2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dulce

I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage.

But it seems that every time i use it the opponent brings the knight to A5, which they dismiss as not good but it seems thats gives them alot of action after that move. Any counter to that move? Or is this just another blitzreig type move that only works when a n00b, if there are other great knigth tactics i would love to see em.

Hi Dulce,

I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move.

Best Regards,

AO

**Simon** · 01-26-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dulce

I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage.

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**Dulce** · 01-28-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Hi Dulce,

I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move.

Best Regards,

AO

Yeah, it doesnt seem like a good tutorial at all. Maybe might work on some noobs or playing with your buddies, but any competitive match is going to trip you up.

**darkhorschessers** · 02-20-2009, 05:13 PM

Im sorry to upset you Dulce, but the Two Knights opening, in my opinion is greedy and very frequently losing.

You may ask, "Whats he going on about? I start off with an extra pawn!"

Yes,you do start off a pawn up. BUT, in doing so you may notice that blacks position is incredibly open and easy to develop from whilst white has to immediately drop everything and develop his own pieces.

Another thing being that if you are not aware of how to get away with the pawn properly, you WILL end up losing a major piece.

If i was to give you a list of solid and playable openings, the two knights would NOT be on the list. It can be played for leisure purposes, as it is often fun to play such openings rather then begin with a boring one like the Caro-Kann or the Alekhine for instance. But i strongly suggest that you keep yourself to playing this opening in JUST PRACTICE GAMES and not tournament ones.

**Dulce** · 02-21-2009, 07:33 AM

I've noticed it rarely gets to the point where you are able to dual threaten the opponents pawn. And even then he has a good block by bringing his knight to the side of the board. Although I've used the opener a few times and have done pretty good as just a general opener without trying to push the fork. I dont know if this is popular enough that opponent knows what im up to or if its just general chance that a person rarely reacts the way the tutorial invisions.

**Herbert** · 02-21-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by darkhorschessers

Im sorry to upset you Dulce, but the Two Knights opening, in my opinion is greedy and very frequently losing.

Maybe you are not playing it properly? What line do you usually use?

**granturismo4ad** · 03-29-2009, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Hi Dulce,

I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move.

Best Regards,

AO

Na5 is actually a pretty good move in this position, since it forces White's bishop off of the b1-g8 diagonal. 5.Bb5+ keeps the pawn for White, but the bishop will eventually have to retreat.

Retreating the bishop immediately with 5. Be2 gives the pawn back to 5. ...Nxd5, where Black is better.

3. Ng5 is officially called the Fried Liver Attack, but is easily refuted by 3. ...d5, as shown in the video.

4. ...Nd4 fails to account for 5. d6!, giving the pawn back with advantage.

The main line continuation is 4. ...Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3, where Black has sacrificed a pawn for a bad knight on a5 and open lines for the rest of his pieces.

Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3.

**MonCapitan2002** · 03-29-2009, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3.

So what would you recommend then? I had no idea the Fried Liver Attack was refuted already.

**Calvin** · 03-29-2009, 07:21 PM

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3

**Calvin** · 03-29-2009, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

3. Ng5 is officially called the Fried Liver Attack, but is easily refuted by 3. ...d5, as shown in the video.

I am not convinced that Ng5 is bad. Take a look for yourself. What does black play here?

**Jaydon** · 03-29-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Calvin

I am not convinced that Ng5 is bad. Take a look for yourself. What does black play here?

he plays d5

**Just2Good** · 03-29-2009, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jaydon

he plays d5

Doesn't d5 lose to pawn takes pawn?

**Jaydon** · 03-29-2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Doesn't d5 lose to pawn takes pawn?

nah knight takes.

**Just2Good** · 03-29-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jaydon

nah knight takes.

Then the bishop check at b5!

01-26-2009, 07:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	2 Knights Opening I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage. Last edited by Just2Good : 01-26-2009 at 12:00 PM Reason: Added YouTube Window

01-26-2009, 12:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,054 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Na5 is Good Here! Originally Posted by Dulce I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage. But it seems that every time i use it the opponent brings the knight to A5, which they dismiss as not good but it seems thats gives them alot of action after that move. Any counter to that move? Or is this just another blitzreig type move that only works when a n00b, if there are other great knigth tactics i would love to see em. Hi Dulce, I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move. Best Regards, AO __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-26-2009, 02:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Originally Posted by Dulce I'm trying to come across a good opening having both the knights working togethor and try to start with a peice advantage. I came across this tutorial which the narrator brings up alot of possible scenarios to give you an advantage. "images/smilies/unsure2.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Unsure" class="inlineimg" />

01-28-2009, 08:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Hi Dulce, I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move. Best Regards, AO Yeah, it doesnt seem like a good tutorial at all. Maybe might work on some noobs or playing with your buddies, but any competitive match is going to trip you up.

02-21-2009, 01:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Herbert Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Geelong Posts: 58	Originally Posted by darkhorschessers Im sorry to upset you Dulce, but the Two Knights opening, in my opinion is greedy and very frequently losing. Maybe you are not playing it properly? What line do you usually use?

02-20-2009, 05:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
darkhorschessers Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 142	Im sorry to upset you Dulce, but the Two Knights opening, in my opinion is greedy and very frequently losing. You may ask, "Whats he going on about? I start off with an extra pawn!" Yes,you do start off a pawn up. BUT, in doing so you may notice that blacks position is incredibly open and easy to develop from whilst white has to immediately drop everything and develop his own pieces. Another thing being that if you are not aware of how to get away with the pawn properly, you WILL end up losing a major piece. If i was to give you a list of solid and playable openings, the two knights would NOT be on the list. It can be played for leisure purposes, as it is often fun to play such openings rather then begin with a boring one like the Caro-Kann or the Alekhine for instance. But i strongly suggest that you keep yourself to playing this opening in JUST PRACTICE GAMES and not tournament ones.

02-21-2009, 07:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	I've noticed it rarely gets to the point where you are able to dual threaten the opponents pawn. And even then he has a good block by bringing his knight to the side of the board. Although I've used the opener a few times and have done pretty good as just a general opener without trying to push the fork. I dont know if this is popular enough that opponent knows what im up to or if its just general chance that a person rarely reacts the way the tutorial invisions.

03-29-2009, 05:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
granturismo4ad Monty Python reference Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rockford, IL, USA Posts: 124 FICS Handle: granturismo4ad	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Hi Dulce, I think they are actually wrong when they say that bringing the knight to a5 is bad, because in this position it attacks white's bishop which is really quite a nuisance. Generally, while placing a knight on the edge of the board is a mistake, in some instances - this being one of them - it is a good move. Best Regards, AO Na5 is actually a pretty good move in this position, since it forces White's bishop off of the b1-g8 diagonal. 5.Bb5+ keeps the pawn for White, but the bishop will eventually have to retreat. Retreating the bishop immediately with 5. Be2 gives the pawn back to 5. ...Nxd5, where Black is better. 3. Ng5 is officially called the Fried Liver Attack, but is easily refuted by 3. ...d5, as shown in the video. 4. ...Nd4 fails to account for 5. d6!, giving the pawn back with advantage. The main line continuation is 4. ...Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3, where Black has sacrificed a pawn for a bad knight on a5 and open lines for the rest of his pieces. Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3.

03-29-2009, 01:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
MonCapitan2002 Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Nice, France Posts: 30	Originally Posted by granturismo4ad Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3. So what would you recommend then? I had no idea the Fried Liver Attack was refuted already.

03-29-2009, 07:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 259	1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3

03-29-2009, 07:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,097 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Calvin I am not convinced that Ng5 is bad. Take a look for yourself. What does black play here? he plays d5

03-29-2009, 08:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,054 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Jaydon he plays d5 Doesn't d5 lose to pawn takes pawn? __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

03-29-2009, 09:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,097 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Doesn't d5 lose to pawn takes pawn? nah knight takes.

03-29-2009, 09:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,054 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Jaydon nah knight takes. Then the bishop check at b5! __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

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