2 Knights Opening - Page 2 - OzChess

**Jaydon** · 03-29-2009, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Then the bishop check at b5!

? bishop check?

**mowcop** · 03-29-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

Na5 is actually a pretty good move in this position, since it forces White's bishop off of the b1-g8 diagonal. 5.Bb5+ keeps the pawn for White, but the bishop will eventually have to retreat.

Retreating the bishop immediately with 5. Be2 gives the pawn back to 5. ...Nxd5, where Black is better.

3. Ng5 is officially called the Fried Liver Attack, but is easily refuted by 3. ...d5, as shown in the video.

Thr Fried Liver only occurs if after 3.Ng5 the game continues 3..d5 4.exd5 Nxd5? 5.Nxf7!?. However, 5.d4 gives White an excellent game.

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

4. ...Nd4 fails to account for 5. d6!, giving the pawn back with advantage.

4..Nd4 is the interesting Fritz variation where 5.d6 is what Black is hoping for on account of 5..Qxd6 6.Nxf7 Qc6 7.Nxh8 Qxg2 8.Rg1 Qxe4+ 9.Be2 Nf3 mate.

Better is 4..Nd4 5.c3 b5!? with a pretty wild game

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

The main line continuation is 4. ...Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3, where Black has sacrificed a pawn for a bad knight on a5 and open lines for the rest of his pieces.

7.Qf3 is an interesting variation. 5..Bd7 has been played but is probably not so good, although Nigel Short among others have lost from the White position. After the line you mention, Black has a very playable position, but so does White which is all anyone can really ask of an opening. Both colours have winning chances.

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3.

But with Bc4 already played it isn't so good as there are Nxe4 ideas for Black which equalise immediately.

**granturismo4ad** · 04-02-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Calvin

I am not convinced that Ng5 is bad. Take a look for yourself. What does black play here?

Correct play for Black is to respond to 4. Ng5 with 4. ...d5. Best play is 5. exd5 Na5, forcing the bishop off of the a2-g8 diagonal. White can either retreat immediately with Be2, or give check on b5, which only delays matters after 6. ...c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Be2. Black should then proceed to kick out White's knight with h6.

After this position, White has a pawn and no weaknesses. Black has an out-of-place knight on a5, but has many open lines and files to use.

**MonCapitan2002** · 05-24-2009, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

After this position, White has a pawn and no weaknesses. Black has an out-of-place knight on a5, but has many open lines and files to use.

Then why is this line used by black?

**darkhorschessers** · 05-25-2009, 05:18 PM

I don't play the Two Knights and don't plan to either

**granturismo4ad** · 05-27-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by MonCapitan2002

Then why is this line used by black?

Rapid development and the initiative. It is easy for White to be overrun in this position and end up on the defensive.

Very similar to White gambiting a pawn early in the game. Giving up material for the chance of getting a winning attack or getting more material later in the game due to the opposing player's lack of development.

**Just2Good** · 05-27-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by granturismo4ad

Rapid development and the initiative. It is easy for White to be overrun in this position and end up on the defensive.

Very similar to White gambiting a pawn early in the game. Giving up material for the chance of getting a winning attack or getting more material later in the game due to the opposing player's lack of development.

I didn't know that. Maybe I will start employing it as Black. Nice avatar by the way!

**granturismo4ad** · 05-29-2009, 02:53 PM

Thanks. When I get an extra 50 grand, that's what it's getting

Of course, given that White will cooperate and play 4. Ng5.

03-29-2009, 09:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Then the bishop check at b5! ? bishop check?

03-29-2009, 09:53 PM	#17 (permalink)
mowcop fireeater Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 825	Originally Posted by granturismo4ad Na5 is actually a pretty good move in this position, since it forces White's bishop off of the b1-g8 diagonal. 5.Bb5+ keeps the pawn for White, but the bishop will eventually have to retreat. Retreating the bishop immediately with 5. Be2 gives the pawn back to 5. ...Nxd5, where Black is better. 3. Ng5 is officially called the Fried Liver Attack, but is easily refuted by 3. ...d5, as shown in the video. Thr Fried Liver only occurs if after 3.Ng5 the game continues 3..d5 4.exd5 Nxd5? 5.Nxf7!?. However, 5.d4 gives White an excellent game. Originally Posted by granturismo4ad 4. ...Nd4 fails to account for 5. d6!, giving the pawn back with advantage. 4..Nd4 is the interesting Fritz variation where 5.d6 is what Black is hoping for on account of 5..Qxd6 6.Nxf7 Qc6 7.Nxh8 Qxg2 8.Rg1 Qxe4+ 9.Be2 Nf3 mate. Better is 4..Nd4 5.c3 b5!? with a pretty wild game Originally Posted by granturismo4ad The main line continuation is 4. ...Na5 5. Bb5+ c6 6. dxc6 bxc6 7. Be2 h6 8. Nf3, where Black has sacrificed a pawn for a bad knight on a5 and open lines for the rest of his pieces. 7.Qf3 is an interesting variation. 5..Bd7 has been played but is probably not so good, although Nigel Short among others have lost from the White position. After the line you mention, Black has a very playable position, but so does White which is all anyone can really ask of an opening. Both colours have winning chances. Originally Posted by granturismo4ad Of course, White could also go into the Four Knights Opening with 4. Nc3. But with Bc4 already played it isn't so good as there are Nxe4 ideas for Black which equalise immediately. __________________ Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand I'm trying out a new blog site..... http://gorkachc.blogspot.com/

04-02-2009, 09:10 AM	#18 (permalink)
granturismo4ad Monty Python reference Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rockford, IL, USA Posts: 124 FICS Handle: granturismo4ad	Originally Posted by Calvin I am not convinced that Ng5 is bad. Take a look for yourself. What does black play here? Correct play for Black is to respond to 4. Ng5 with 4. ...d5. Best play is 5. exd5 Na5, forcing the bishop off of the a2-g8 diagonal. White can either retreat immediately with Be2, or give check on b5, which only delays matters after 6. ...c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Be2. Black should then proceed to kick out White's knight with h6. After this position, White has a pawn and no weaknesses. Black has an out-of-place knight on a5, but has many open lines and files to use.

05-24-2009, 06:35 PM	#19 (permalink)
MonCapitan2002 Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Nice, France Posts: 30	Originally Posted by granturismo4ad After this position, White has a pawn and no weaknesses. Black has an out-of-place knight on a5, but has many open lines and files to use. Then why is this line used by black?

05-25-2009, 05:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
darkhorschessers Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 142	I don't play the Two Knights and don't plan to either __________________ Everyone knows cricket is the best sport/game/pastime in the world! Why the heck are we playing chess??!!

05-27-2009, 01:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
granturismo4ad Monty Python reference Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rockford, IL, USA Posts: 124 FICS Handle: granturismo4ad	Originally Posted by MonCapitan2002 Then why is this line used by black? Rapid development and the initiative. It is easy for White to be overrun in this position and end up on the defensive. Very similar to White gambiting a pawn early in the game. Giving up material for the chance of getting a winning attack or getting more material later in the game due to the opposing player's lack of development.

05-27-2009, 02:08 PM	#22 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Nice Avatar! Originally Posted by granturismo4ad Rapid development and the initiative. It is easy for White to be overrun in this position and end up on the defensive. Very similar to White gambiting a pawn early in the game. Giving up material for the chance of getting a winning attack or getting more material later in the game due to the opposing player's lack of development. I didn't know that. Maybe I will start employing it as Black. Nice avatar by the way! __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

05-29-2009, 02:53 PM	#23 (permalink)
granturismo4ad Monty Python reference Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rockford, IL, USA Posts: 124 FICS Handle: granturismo4ad	Thanks. When I get an extra 50 grand, that's what it's getting Of course, given that White will cooperate and play 4. Ng5.

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