Australian Junior Chess League - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 05-25-2008, 04:24 PM

Those of you who are receiving update emails about the germinating AJCL will no doubt be aware that a vote is coming to adopt a Constitution which will give birth to a (the?) AJCL. Unfortunately, the proposed constitution is a clone of the moribund running sore of Australian chess, the ACF, has as its crown of thorns.

As if we did not know that the ACF structure, where: States beat their own drum, stymie other State's initiatives, retard development, stab players in the back, stab organisers in the back, cheat the community out of fair consultation, stifle debate, murder descent, warm the seats, sleep at the wheel, junket, eschew novelty, and embarrass themselves daily more than a an underarm delivery on the final ball.

As if we don't know that without a constitution that prevents dead headed deadwood no-goods from inhabiting the top office, the neophyte AJCL will be a genetic and congenital monster that will require life long 24/7 just to keep it viable.

I have proposed the follow to the steering committee.

Motion: That office bearers may not serve more than 3 consecutive years on the council and not more than 3 years in any 6 year period.

Rationale:
1. Volunteers become used up and burnt out. Gaps in service can allow other volunteers to keep the team fresh.
2. The prospect of a limited term forces incumbents to devise systems and procedures that are easily repeatable by new officers.
3. Individuals cannot become dominant within the administration.

**Firegoat7** · 07-03-2008, 12:14 AM

Greetings,

AJCL will be affiliated with ACF.
Obviously, it's a cart horse thing,except, as we know the ACF is a dead carcass.

I wait with baited breath as the vultures circle their prey.

cheers fg7

**Iconoclast** · 07-21-2008, 11:22 PM

The AJCL is going to have more rank and file than the ACF but be controlled by the ACF. So, the ACF grows in its influence in all matters chessic. How is it then, that AJCL matters are not being reported upon in the pathetic bare bones ACF Newsletter. Perhaps the ACF has bitten off more than it can chew and is considering killing the whole AJCL idea.

**Chessic-Adventures** · 07-27-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

The AJCL is going to have more rank and file than the ACF but be controlled by the ACF. So, the ACF grows in its influence in all matters chessic. How is it then, that AJCL matters are not being reported upon in the pathetic bare bones ACF Newsletter. Perhaps the ACF has bitten off more than it can chew and is considering killing the whole AJCL idea.

Is that a reference to me?

**Iconoclast** · 07-27-2008, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures

Is that a reference to me?

Since you are here (OZCHESS) you are always on the ACF radar.

Back to business...
The ACF Newsletter keeps coming out and there is nary a skerrick of info on the AJCL. Why?

Why hasn't KB or BG replied to this question?

**Iconoclast** · 08-27-2008, 02:01 AM

The unfair junior team levy is a typical example of how moribund the ACF is. I would like to know what the AJCL has to say about this dispute. Is the AJCL dead in the water? The ACF never mentions the AJCL in its Newsletter. Perhaps it really is as dead as I have (very recently) heard it was. That would be a tragedy. I know Jenny Oliver was going to murder anyone who successfully scuttled the AJCL. I might run a book on who's funeral will be the first we hear about. The betting will start at:

Gary Wastell 2:1
George Howard 2:1
Richard Gastineau-Hills 3:1
Bill Gletsos 3:1
Kevin Bonham 4:1
Leonid Sandler 4:1
Brian Thomas 4:1
Haydn Barber 10:1
Graham Richards 10:1
Denis Jessop 50:1
Mos Ali 100:1

08-30-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

The unfair junior team levy is a typical example of how moribund the ACF is.

Hardly. The "unfair junior team levy" was scrapped quite quickly after various severe problems with it (not just the ACTJCL complaint) became apparent in at least three states/territories in the year 2006. For 2007 a completely new scheme was in place.

I know Jenny Oliver was going to murder anyone who successfully scuttled the AJCL. I might run a book on who's funeral will be the first we hear about. The betting will start at:

If the book concerns me trying to scuttle the AusJCL then the bookie can write their own odds and still won't get a single rational taker, but might get rich fleecing the likes of you.

**Iconoclast** · 08-30-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

If the book concerns me trying to scuttle the AusJCL then the bookie can write their own odds and still won't get a single rational taker, but might get rich fleecing the likes of you.

I will not be responding to trolling here.

Kevin Bonham, the AustJCL is by far the largest development in chess administration in 20 years. No doubt the chess playing public and the parents of juniors want to know more about it. You are the ACF Vice President, you are privy to and instrumental in the ACF decission processes. Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?

08-31-2008, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I will not be responding to trolling here.

Oh really? More fool me then for responding to yours.

If you're going to call me a troll for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all?

**Iconoclast** · 08-31-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

If you're going to call me a troll ...

That is all on another thread. Leave it there. I will not be responding to trolling here.

... why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all?

1. Because there are hundreds of people who would like to know where their sport is being lead by its peak body.
2. You are at the centre of the journey - you are both the ACF VP and have a role in the AJCL.
3. You are here on this thread and you are being asked in good faith, to respond to a genuinely important question.

I reiterate, the AustJCL is by far the largest development in chess administration in 20 years. No doubt the chess playing public and the parents of juniors want to know more about it. You are the ACF Vice President, you are privy to and instrumental in the ACF decision making processes. Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?

08-31-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

That is all on another thread. Leave it there.

Actually you said I was "trolling" on this one. But bearing in mind the subtle distinction between trolling and being a troll, and your newly acquired love of the pedantry you claim to despise, I shall rephrase:

If you're going to accuse me of trolling for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all?

1. Because there are hundreds of people who would like to know where their sport is being lead by its peak body.

The "hundreds" generally are not here. They can ask that question through more credible forums or means (this also applies re point 2).

3. You are here on this thread and you are being asked in good faith, to respond to a genuinely important question.

By a person who wrongly accuses me of trolling, who has wrongly suggested I am among those most likely to kill the body off, and who wrongly uses the thread as an excuse for more of his usual attacks on the ACF.

None of that sounds remotely like "good faith" to me. When I see anything that looks like "good faith" to you on this question I will let you know, but it would certainly include retraction of the rubbish I mention in the previous paragraph.

Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?[/u]

I can, but you have not yet caused me to be inclined to do so!

**Arrogant-One** · 08-31-2008, 09:54 PM

Kevin,

Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?

Best Regards,

Alex Toolsie

08-31-2008, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Kevin,

Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?

Best Regards,

Alex Toolsie

I'll be glad to tell you that after you demonstrate good faith by deleting all Iconoclast's posts from this thread.

**Iconoclast** · 09-01-2008, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

Actually you said I was "trolling" on this one. But bearing in mind the subtle distinction between trolling and being a troll, and your newly acquired love of the pedantry you claim to despise, I shall rephrase:

If you're going to accuse me of trolling for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all?

I am ignoring this divisional trolling.

The "hundreds" generally are not here. They can ask that question through more credible forums or means ...

From this, I understand that if someone other than me asks, some where other than here, then you will answer. Is this true?

By a person who wrongly accuses me of trolling, who has wrongly suggested I am among those most likely to kill the body off, and who wrongly uses the thread as an excuse for more of his usual attacks on the ACF.

I am ignoring this diversion trolling

None of that sounds remotely like "good faith" to me. When I see anything that looks like "good faith" to you on this question I will let you know, but it would certainly include retraction of the rubbish I mention in the previous paragraph.

Am I correct to understand that demonstration of "good faith" by me removing my posts from this thread would be enough for you to deign to answer the question.

I can, but you have not yet caused me to be inclined to do so!

I am I right to assume that you will only answer the question when you are inclined to do so? That you would be inclined to do so if:
1. The asker was not me.
2. The question was posed elsewhere.
3. My posts on this thread where censored.
4. A particular combination of 1, 2, and 3.

**Noddy** · 09-02-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Kevin,

Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?

Best Regards,

Alex Toolsie

This may be because the ACF has very little control over the publication of the newsletter, they appoint an editor and its up to the editor what goes into the newsletter. I think that is the way it works.

05-25-2008, 04:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Australian Junior Chess League Those of you who are receiving update emails about the germinating AJCL will no doubt be aware that a vote is coming to adopt a Constitution which will give birth to a (the?) AJCL. Unfortunately, the proposed constitution is a clone of the moribund running sore of Australian chess, the ACF, has as its crown of thorns. As if we did not know that the ACF structure, where: States beat their own drum, stymie other State's initiatives, retard development, stab players in the back, stab organisers in the back, cheat the community out of fair consultation, stifle debate, murder descent, warm the seats, sleep at the wheel, junket, eschew novelty, and embarrass themselves daily more than a an underarm delivery on the final ball. As if we don't know that without a constitution that prevents dead headed deadwood no-goods from inhabiting the top office, the neophyte AJCL will be a genetic and congenital monster that will require life long 24/7 just to keep it viable. I have proposed the follow to the steering committee. Motion: That office bearers may not serve more than 3 consecutive years on the council and not more than 3 years in any 6 year period. Rationale: 1. Volunteers become used up and burnt out. Gaps in service can allow other volunteers to keep the team fresh. 2. The prospect of a limited term forces incumbents to devise systems and procedures that are easily repeatable by new officers. 3. Individuals cannot become dominant within the administration. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-03-2008, 12:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Playing backyard cricket Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: somewhere in virtual reality Posts: 605	Greetings, AJCL will be affiliated with ACF. Obviously, it's a cart horse thing,except, as we know the ACF is a dead carcass. I wait with baited breath as the vultures circle their prey. cheers fg7 __________________ "...A thorough knowledge of the elements takes us more than half the road to mastership" - Aron Nimzowitsch

07-21-2008, 11:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	The AJCL is going to have more rank and file than the ACF but be controlled by the ACF. So, the ACF grows in its influence in all matters chessic. How is it then, that AJCL matters are not being reported upon in the pathetic bare bones ACF Newsletter. Perhaps the ACF has bitten off more than it can chew and is considering killing the whole AJCL idea. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-27-2008, 06:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 204	Originally Posted by Iconoclast The AJCL is going to have more rank and file than the ACF but be controlled by the ACF. So, the ACF grows in its influence in all matters chessic. How is it then, that AJCL matters are not being reported upon in the pathetic bare bones ACF Newsletter. Perhaps the ACF has bitten off more than it can chew and is considering killing the whole AJCL idea. Is that a reference to me?

07-27-2008, 07:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures Is that a reference to me? Since you are here (OZCHESS) you are always on the ACF radar. Back to business... The ACF Newsletter keeps coming out and there is nary a skerrick of info on the AJCL. Why? Why hasn't KB or BG replied to this question? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals. Last edited by Iconoclast : 07-27-2008 at 07:19 PM Reason: spelling

08-27-2008, 02:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	The unfair junior team levy is a typical example of how moribund the ACF is. I would like to know what the AJCL has to say about this dispute. Is the AJCL dead in the water? The ACF never mentions the AJCL in its Newsletter. Perhaps it really is as dead as I have (very recently) heard it was. That would be a tragedy. I know Jenny Oliver was going to murder anyone who successfully scuttled the AJCL. I might run a book on who's funeral will be the first we hear about. The betting will start at: Gary Wastell 2:1 George Howard 2:1 Richard Gastineau-Hills 3:1 Bill Gletsos 3:1 Kevin Bonham 4:1 Leonid Sandler 4:1 Brian Thomas 4:1 Haydn Barber 10:1 Graham Richards 10:1 Denis Jessop 50:1 Mos Ali 100:1 __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-30-2008, 02:01 PM	#7 (permalink) #7 (permalink) (View Moderation Comments)
Ophiuchus Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by Iconoclast The unfair junior team levy is a typical example of how moribund the ACF is. Hardly. The "unfair junior team levy" was scrapped quite quickly after various severe problems with it (not just the ACTJCL complaint) became apparent in at least three states/territories in the year 2006. For 2007 a completely new scheme was in place. I know Jenny Oliver was going to murder anyone who successfully scuttled the AJCL. I might run a book on who's funeral will be the first we hear about. The betting will start at: If the book concerns me trying to scuttle the AusJCL then the bookie can write their own odds and still won't get a single rational taker, but might get rich fleecing the likes of you.

08-30-2008, 02:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Ophiuchus If the book concerns me trying to scuttle the AusJCL then the bookie can write their own odds and still won't get a single rational taker, but might get rich fleecing the likes of you. I will not be responding to trolling here. Kevin Bonham, the AustJCL is by far the largest development in chess administration in 20 years. No doubt the chess playing public and the parents of juniors want to know more about it. You are the ACF Vice President, you are privy to and instrumental in the ACF decission processes. Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-31-2008, 12:23 AM	#9 (permalink) #9 (permalink) (View Moderation Comments)
Ophiuchus Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I will not be responding to trolling here. Oh really? More fool me then for responding to yours. If you're going to call me a troll for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all?

08-31-2008, 12:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Ophiuchus If you're going to call me a troll ... That is all on another thread. Leave it there. I will not be responding to trolling here. ... why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all? 1. Because there are hundreds of people who would like to know where their sport is being lead by its peak body. 2. You are at the centre of the journey - you are both the ACF VP and have a role in the AJCL. 3. You are here on this thread and you are being asked in good faith, to respond to a genuinely important question. I reiterate, the AustJCL is by far the largest development in chess administration in 20 years. No doubt the chess playing public and the parents of juniors want to know more about it. You are the ACF Vice President, you are privy to and instrumental in the ACF decision making processes. Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter? __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

08-31-2008, 09:04 PM	#11 (permalink) #11 (permalink) (View Moderation Comments)
Ophiuchus Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by Iconoclast That is all on another thread. Leave it there. Actually you said I was "trolling" on this one. But bearing in mind the subtle distinction between trolling and being a troll, and your newly acquired love of the pedantry you claim to despise, I shall rephrase: If you're going to accuse me of trolling for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all? 1. Because there are hundreds of people who would like to know where their sport is being lead by its peak body. The "hundreds" generally are not here. They can ask that question through more credible forums or means (this also applies re point 2). 3. You are here on this thread and you are being asked in good faith, to respond to a genuinely important question. By a person who wrongly accuses me of trolling, who has wrongly suggested I am among those most likely to kill the body off, and who wrongly uses the thread as an excuse for more of his usual attacks on the ACF. None of that sounds remotely like "good faith" to me. When I see anything that looks like "good faith" to you on this question I will let you know, but it would certainly include retraction of the rubbish I mention in the previous paragraph. Can you tell us why progress toward the ACF handing over Junior matters to the AustJCL has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter?[/u] I can, but you have not yet caused me to be inclined to do so!

08-31-2008, 09:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Arrogant-One Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,682 ICC Handle: Just2Good FICS Handle: Advantage	ACF Hand Over? Kevin, Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter? Best Regards, Alex Toolsie __________________ . ... for it is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it, and would unquestionably have done it too . . . ~ Charles Dickens novel ~

08-31-2008, 10:53 PM	#13 (permalink) #13 (permalink) (View Moderation Comments)
Ophiuchus Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Kevin, Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter? Best Regards, Alex Toolsie I'll be glad to tell you that after you demonstrate good faith by deleting all Iconoclast's posts from this thread.

09-01-2008, 09:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by Ophiuchus Actually you said I was "trolling" on this one. But bearing in mind the subtle distinction between trolling and being a troll, and your newly acquired love of the pedantry you claim to despise, I shall rephrase: If you're going to accuse me of trolling for pointing out the disconnection between your views about my attitude to the AustJCL and the reality then why should I bother taking an interest in this thread at all? I am ignoring this divisional trolling. The "hundreds" generally are not here. They can ask that question through more credible forums or means ... From this, I understand that if someone other than me asks, some where other than here, then you will answer. Is this true? By a person who wrongly accuses me of trolling, who has wrongly suggested I am among those most likely to kill the body off, and who wrongly uses the thread as an excuse for more of his usual attacks on the ACF. I am ignoring this diversion trolling None of that sounds remotely like "good faith" to me. When I see anything that looks like "good faith" to you on this question I will let you know, but it would certainly include retraction of the rubbish I mention in the previous paragraph. Am I correct to understand that demonstration of "good faith" by me removing my posts from this thread would be enough for you to deign to answer the question. I can, but you have not yet caused me to be inclined to do so! I am I right to assume that you will only answer the question when you are inclined to do so? That you would be inclined to do so if: 1. The asker was not me. 2. The question was posed elsewhere. 3. My posts on this thread where censored. 4. A particular combination of 1, 2, and 3. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

09-02-2008, 02:53 PM	#15 (permalink)
Noddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 134	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Kevin, Please tell me why progress towards the ACF handing over junior matters over to the Australian Junior Chess League has not been reported in the ACF Newsletter? Best Regards, Alex Toolsie This may be because the ACF has very little control over the publication of the newsletter, they appoint an editor and its up to the editor what goes into the newsletter. I think that is the way it works.

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