Voting Structure and Rules - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 12-14-2009, 06:13 AM

Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010.

I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes.

Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections.

As such it will be as follows:

Three moderator positions will be open for voting;
Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot;
Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote;
Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and
Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position.

If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process.

Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency. The poll will go up on 20 December or 21 December - and will run until 31 December 2009.

I understand Heartbreak Kid and antichrist are declaring their candidacy

I also nominate Jaydon and LMatheson.

**Just2Good** · 12-14-2009, 10:10 AM

Someone has nominated MikeGuns as a candidate.

**Firegoat7** · 12-14-2009, 10:28 AM

Hi J2G,

How are you going to determine hydra from real account? Will we have a poll for nominations?

cheers,

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-14-2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010.

I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes.

Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections.

As such it will be as follows:

Three moderator positions will be open for voting;

Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot;

Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote;

Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and

Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position.

If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process.

Who is going to ensure your integrity.

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency.

Please explain how excluding those members who have not posted demonstrates transparency.

Also not everyone with more than 10 posts has actually made 10 posts as you have on numerous occasions manually bumped new users post counts to numbers greater than 10 to evade Ozchess's spam filter.

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-14-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi J2G,

How are you going to determine hydra from real account?

Good question.

To name just a few the following are all hydras:

Black Wolf, Alex Toolsie, Rex, Uki, ANZ Refugee, Carrier Pigeon, Excalibur Sapiens, LucifersLegionary, TheObserver, Virgil.

**MOZ** · 12-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Good question.

To name just a few the following are all hydras:

Black Wolf, Alex Toolsie, Rex, Uki, ANZ Refugee, Carrier Pigeon, Excalibur Sapiens, LucifersLegionary, TheObserver, Virgil.

Ah...so this is where my spreadsheet comes in useful.

Many more can be found here if you have the right tools.

**antichrist** · 12-14-2009, 01:10 PM

well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running

**MOZ** · 12-14-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running

More likely you have 'done a democrat' and did not want to win.

**Interlocutor** · 12-14-2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010.

I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes.

Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections.

As such it will be as follows:

Three moderator positions will be open for voting;

Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot;

Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote;

Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and

Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position.

If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process.

Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency. The poll will go up on 20 December or 21 December - and will run until 31 December 2009.

I understand Heartbreak Kid and antichrist are declaring their candidacy I also nominate Jaydon and LMatheson.

Item 3 has my attention.

**Iconoclast** · 12-14-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Who is going to ensure your [J2G] integrity.

This from someone aka the dog.

**antichrist** · 12-15-2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

This from someone aka the dog.

what does J2G refer to?

I know I am slow but what does it refer to?

**Just2Good** · 12-15-2009, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi J2G,

How are you going to determine hydra from real account? Will we have a poll for nominations?

cheers,

MOZ's spreadsheet, ip address information, and general knowledge. I am not saying it will be an easy task, or a perfect bullet proof method to guarantee integrity, but hopefully it will be enough. Its important to me that the vote is fair and unblemished by rorting.

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Who is going to ensure your integrity.

The vote is open. So everyone can see who voted for who, and secondly if there are some voters who had never had accounts before, and who suddenly register - make ten posts - and then vote, obviously such posters would be scrutinized heavily.

Please explain how excluding those members who have not posted demonstrates transparency.

These are elected moderator positions. Moderators moderate posts made by other posters, and that means posters who post are policed more heavily than posters who do not. Accordingly, its fairer that posters who post get to decide who polices them.

Kevin still has the opportunity to make ten posts if he chooses to, if that was what was bothering you.

Another point is that posters who contribute to this site via posting should have extra privileges over those who do not contribute. The right to vote is one such privilege.

Also not everyone with more than 10 posts has actually made 10 posts as you have on numerous occasions manually bumped new users post counts to numbers greater than 10 to evade Ozchess's spam filter.

The rule states that they need to have made ten posts. That's a separate thing to post count which inflates to evade the spam filter. Whether a poster has made ten posts is pretty simple thing to verify.

Originally Posted by antichrist

well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running

That's a shame but I respect your decision. Your name will not be added to the poll.

Once again, if this election is not conducted to the highest standard of fairness, impartiality, or integrity - than it is nothing more than a fraud which will reflect poorly on this forum and everyone who is a member of it.

As such, I will endeavour to do everything in my power to obtain a genuine democratic result. If these elections are a success, it will be a great day for OzChess - and a great day for chess in Australia!

**Firegoat7** · 12-15-2009, 11:43 AM

12-14-2009, 06:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Voting Structure and Rules Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010. I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes. Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections. As such it will be as follows: Three moderator positions will be open for voting; Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot; Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote; Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position. If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process. Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency. The poll will go up on 20 December or 21 December - and will run until 31 December 2009. I understand Heartbreak Kid and antichrist are declaring their candidacy I also nominate Jaydon and LMatheson. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-14-2009, 10:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Great New Candidate! Someone has nominated MikeGuns as a candidate. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-14-2009, 10:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Hi J2G, How are you going to determine hydra from real account? Will we have a poll for nominations? cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

12-14-2009, 11:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Just2Good Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010. I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes. Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections. As such it will be as follows: Three moderator positions will be open for voting; Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot; Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote; Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position. If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process. Who is going to ensure your integrity. Originally Posted by Just2Good Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency. Please explain how excluding those members who have not posted demonstrates transparency. Also not everyone with more than 10 posts has actually made 10 posts as you have on numerous occasions manually bumped new users post counts to numbers greater than 10 to evade Ozchess's spam filter. Last edited by Bill Gletsos : 12-14-2009 at 03:19 PM Reason: correction

12-14-2009, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi J2G, How are you going to determine hydra from real account? Good question. To name just a few the following are all hydras: Black Wolf, Alex Toolsie, Rex, Uki, ANZ Refugee, Carrier Pigeon, Excalibur Sapiens, LucifersLegionary, TheObserver, Virgil.

12-14-2009, 01:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Good question. To name just a few the following are all hydras: Black Wolf, Alex Toolsie, Rex, Uki, ANZ Refugee, Carrier Pigeon, Excalibur Sapiens, LucifersLegionary, TheObserver, Virgil. Ah...so this is where my spreadsheet comes in useful. Many more can be found here if you have the right tools. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

12-14-2009, 01:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running

12-14-2009, 01:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by antichrist well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running More likely you have 'done a democrat' and did not want to win. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

12-14-2009, 06:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Interlocutor Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25	Originally Posted by Just2Good Okay, sorry I am a little bit late in this regard but the time has come to choose our elected moderators for the 6 month period commencing 1 January 2010 until 30 June 2010. I was hoping a certain dialogue would take place on who would be candidates, and how the voting structure would take place. As this issue certainly took a back seat to the Chess Victoria Election topics, thankfully perhaps we can now focus on our democratic processes. Unfortunately, without that debate, to make the time frame which was announced of a 1 January 2010 start, it has fallen on me to decide the structure for the elections. As such it will be as follows: Three moderator positions will be open for voting; Voting will be open and transparent, not secret ballot; Only accounts that have made ten or more posts will be entitled to vote; Hydra accounts cannot vote unless the user's main account has not voted; and Posters can nominate candidates even if those candidates have not sought out the position. If there are issues of multiple voting or voting discrepancies, I will take whatever action necessary to maintain the integrity of the process. Point number 3 above is necessary in order to demonstrate transparency. The poll will go up on 20 December or 21 December - and will run until 31 December 2009. I understand Heartbreak Kid and antichrist are declaring their candidacy I also nominate Jaydon and LMatheson. Item 3 has my attention.

12-14-2009, 10:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Who is going to ensure your [J2G] integrity. This from someone aka the dog. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

12-15-2009, 12:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by Iconoclast This from someone aka the dog. what does J2G refer to? I know I am slow but what does it refer to? Last edited by antichrist : 12-15-2009 at 11:10 AM

12-15-2009, 04:28 AM	#12 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Answers to Queries Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi J2G, How are you going to determine hydra from real account? Will we have a poll for nominations? cheers, MOZ's spreadsheet, ip address information, and general knowledge. I am not saying it will be an easy task, or a perfect bullet proof method to guarantee integrity, but hopefully it will be enough. Its important to me that the vote is fair and unblemished by rorting. Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Who is going to ensure your integrity. The vote is open. So everyone can see who voted for who, and secondly if there are some voters who had never had accounts before, and who suddenly register - make ten posts - and then vote, obviously such posters would be scrutinized heavily. Please explain how excluding those members who have not posted demonstrates transparency. These are elected moderator positions. Moderators moderate posts made by other posters, and that means posters who post are policed more heavily than posters who do not. Accordingly, its fairer that posters who post get to decide who polices them. Kevin still has the opportunity to make ten posts if he chooses to, if that was what was bothering you. Another point is that posters who contribute to this site via posting should have extra privileges over those who do not contribute. The right to vote is one such privilege. Also not everyone with more than 10 posts has actually made 10 posts as you have on numerous occasions manually bumped new users post counts to numbers greater than 10 to evade Ozchess's spam filter. The rule states that they need to have made ten posts. That's a separate thing to post count which inflates to evade the spam filter. Whether a poster has made ten posts is pretty simple thing to verify. Originally Posted by antichrist well I have dropped out so there may not be a vote - I have done Costello and not running That's a shame but I respect your decision. Your name will not be added to the poll. Once again, if this election is not conducted to the highest standard of fairness, impartiality, or integrity - than it is nothing more than a fraud which will reflect poorly on this forum and everyone who is a member of it. As such, I will endeavour to do everything in my power to obtain a genuine democratic result. If these elections are a success, it will be a great day for OzChess - and a great day for chess in Australia! __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-15-2009, 11:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Top post J2G! __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

12-15-2009, 01:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Trying to Rig the Election!!! Originally Posted by Kevin This does not stop a poster with many accounts from using each of his hydras (but not his main account) to vote. Sadly, Kevin - who has an interest in maintaining the status quo (of never having elections for moderator positions), has attempted to muddy the waters of Australia's first election of democratic moderators with his above observation. While one interpretation of the rules may allow what he refers to, quite simply I would not stand for it as it would violate the spirit of 'one person - one vote' (which the rules endeavour to embody). Kevin then goes on to sob about how Firegoat7 deleted his hydra accounts because he misused them to try and chase people away from OzChess, and he then (strange as his logic is) thinks the posts he made to achieve said goal should entitled him to a vote. Maybe someday he will learn, but I won't hold my breath. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-15-2009, 05:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Dear Kevin You want certainty. You want perfection. You want the impossible. Laws against murder do not prevent murder. Only the possibility of being caught reduces the likelihood of a murder. Kevin, you are an attention whore and you pursue it with asinine Janus-faced argument. Drop dead. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals. Last edited by Iconoclast : 12-15-2009 at 05:46 PM Reason: spelling

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