Chess Victoria in Crisis - OzChess

**ChessGuru** · 02-21-2011, 03:01 PM

First, some easy to understand numbers.

CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports):

2007 - $36,000 (approx)
2008 - $33,900
2009 - $26,300
2010 - $17,440
Today - ??

This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)...

These individuals need to take responsibility for their results.

Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since...

There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth.

I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result?

Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation.

The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members.

As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive.

If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship...

**antichrist** · 02-21-2011, 04:51 PM

do they own their own premises? And why not?

**JaK** · 02-21-2011, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

First, some easy to understand numbers.

CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports):

2007 - $36,000 (approx)
2008 - $33,900
2009 - $26,300
2010 - $17,440
Today - ??

This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)...

These individuals need to take responsibility for their results.

Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since...

There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth.

I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result?

Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation.

The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members.

As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive.

If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship...

ask Sobriquet!

Originally Posted by CG

If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship

Sorry mate, I will be having some short proletarian break in Suncoast QLD this weekend. Some other time maybe!

**Just2Good** · 02-21-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

First, some easy to understand numbers.

CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports):

2007 - $36,000 (approx)
2008 - $33,900
2009 - $26,300
2010 - $17,440
Today - ??

This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)...

These individuals need to take responsibility for their results.

Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since...

There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth.

I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result?

Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation.

The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members.

As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive.

If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship...

Chess is booming in Victoria. So if it cost $17,000 to make that happen, its money well spent in my opinion.

**antichrist** · 02-21-2011, 11:43 PM

we know that Moz can duck, bob and weave thru any maze so just move onto the next guy that you want to hang

**JaK** · 02-22-2011, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Chess is booming in Victoria. So if it cost $17,000 to make that happen, its money well spent in my opinion.

No doubt about that, however, and let's be honest about it! If this alleged deficit was about NSWCA what would you 've said?

**Just2Good** · 02-22-2011, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by JaK

No doubt about that, however, and let's be honest about it! If this alleged deficit was about NSWCA what would you 've said?

I would have said that the loss does not reflect the growth in the game for that state. In Victoria, the loss has translated into unimaginable growth for the game, even at the junior level.

Its the difference between spending money and getting a terrific result versus spending money with nothing to show for it (like the NSWCA).

**JaK** · 02-22-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

I would have said that the loss does not reflect the growth in the game for that state. In Victoria, the loss has translated into unimaginable growth for the game, even at the junior level.

Its the difference between spending money and getting a terrific result versus spending money with nothing to show for it (like the NSWCA).

well staging events as the AUS Open, and SIO isn't exactly nothing! Why don't we concentrate on campaigns to have similar events staged in Victoria as well as other states?
However, I must emphasise that Melbourne Chess Club's Melbourne Cup of Chess is forming up as one of the most important tournaments in Australia!
Similarly and in my opinion most importantly
THE AUS JUNIOR CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP staged by new forces in Victorian Chess away from the main city area is definitely the event of the year!

I should add here the invaluable assistance of the AJCL for the successfull completion of this event!

**ChessGuru** · 02-22-2011, 01:13 PM

If CV had spent $17,000 to develop chess then sure, no problems. That's why CV exists.

Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them. The boom is thanks to coaches having spent 10-15 years building chess in schools, then clubs like Croydon, Box Hill, Ranges, MCC and others who take those school-kids and give them a place to play and develop.

The boom we're experiencing in Victoria would have happened without CV....

The losses are just poor management, you can't dress it up as 'investment in the development of chess'.... CV budgeted for a $1940 surplus and ended with a $6600 loss. There was no $8500 development plan...

**antichrist** · 02-22-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

If CV had spent $17,000 to develop chess then sure, no problems. That's why CV exists.

Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them. The boom is thanks to coaches having spent 10-15 years building chess in schools, then clubs like Croydon, Box Hill, Ranges, MCC and others who take those school-kids and give them a place to play and develop.

The boom we're experiencing in Victoria would have happened without CV....

The losses are just poor management, you can't dress it up as 'investment in the development of chess'.... CV budgeted for a $1940 surplus and ended with a $6600 loss. There was no $8500 development plan...

sounds like what GW Bush did for America, now the same Repub supporters want to blame Obama for the clean-up

**Just2Good** · 02-23-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them.

Quite possibly.

I am not in Victoria so I don't really know for sure what's going on there.

**ChessGuru** · 02-27-2011, 07:57 PM

Well - meeting over. Bit of fun.

Financials not passed. Another meeting to follow!

Disappointing that the Chairperson cut short some good discussions just as they were getting started. I hope that Darryl and I can have a chat about the issues again another time.

Message to Darryl: all we (the chess community) are asking is that if you, in your CV VP role (and the same of all exec members), are presented with an option between +1 and -1 that you'll make the decision with what's best for CV first and not with what's best for your business. And if you can't do that, OK, just walk away and don't put yourself in that difficult situation.

An extension of the same thing would be that if you are given a +0.75 option that you give your best efforts to improve it into a +1 option; even if it costs your private interests -0.5... try to come up with ideas that are + for CV.

Just be CV when you're wearing the CV hat...that's why you were elected.

**Kerry Stead** · 02-27-2011, 09:08 PM

CG,
Although you may have some useful ideas, perhaps your method of presenting it to the meeting could be improved ... perhaps in a less confrontational way.
Obviously CV needs to do something different to turn its apparent downward financial trend in the right direction. Your suggestion of having CV run junior events itself may be something that could help this (there may of course be issues with such a plan, at least in the short-term, but that is not the point), but the essence of your argument was lost in your naming of CV executive members ...

Either way, it seems like I need to do some reading regarding the Association Incorporations Act ... and prepare myself for another exciting SGM!

**Pablito15** · 02-27-2011, 10:28 PM

Looks like there will be an important motion to vote on next time, namely that CV run all the events shipped out to private companies itself and take whatever profit or loss that comes with it.

It'd be nice to hear some discussion on what people think that will result in for chess in Victoria so we can make a more informed decision.

On a personal level I'll say this: I don't think Chess Victoria is an institution that should be making a huge profit. I'd be fiercely against any membership fees to put more money in the pocket of CV to 'develop chess in Victoria' as frankly, as part of the majority (a club player who plays for fun, not a talented junior who might go somewhere, or a player looking for a title) the fact is that the clubs run a perfectly good program already for us.

Any money sucked out of the majority of Chess Players for CV would not give much to your average club player. That being said, regarding tournaments, I'm sure we'd all be much more comfortable with a transparent, responsible body that have no interest in personal profit running things like the inter-schools in Victoria.

**Just2Good** · 02-28-2011, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kerry Stead

... and prepare myself for another exciting SGM!

A Special General Meeting?

Why is a SGM planned?

02-21-2011, 03:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	Chess Victoria in Crisis First, some easy to understand numbers. CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports): 2007 - $36,000 (approx) 2008 - $33,900 2009 - $26,300 2010 - $17,440 Today - ?? This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)... These individuals need to take responsibility for their results. Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since... There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth. I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result? Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation. The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members. As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive. If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship...

02-21-2011, 06:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by ChessGuru First, some easy to understand numbers. CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports): 2007 - $36,000 (approx) 2008 - $33,900 2009 - $26,300 2010 - $17,440 Today - ?? This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)... These individuals need to take responsibility for their results. Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since... There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth. I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result? Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation. The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members. As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive. If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship... ask Sobriquet! Originally Posted by CG If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship Sorry mate, I will be having some short proletarian break in Suncoast QLD this weekend. Some other time maybe!

02-21-2011, 09:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by ChessGuru First, some easy to understand numbers. CV cash in the bank (on 30 September - the date of their financial reports): 2007 - $36,000 (approx) 2008 - $33,900 2009 - $26,300 2010 - $17,440 Today - ?? This (accelerating) financial decline has been presided over by substantially the same people; names and number of terms on the executive; Sandler (4), Stanning (3), Kildisas (3), Wills (2), Johansen (2)... These individuals need to take responsibility for their results. Our current president first joined the executive (as VP behind K.Wills) in 2008. According to the Treasurer (Stanning) "The bottom line is showing a loss of just on $2000 for the first time in 5 years." Well, it's been showing a loss ever since... There have been excuses, excuses and more excuses from the Treasurer. Blaming the software, previous account errors, late ACF invoices, handover issues... anything but face up to the truth. I am stunned that Treasurer even dares make statements like: "we should recover some of those reserves in a healthier 2011"? On what basis does he think that is going to happen? His budget for 2010 promised a $1940 surplus and left us with a $6600 loss ... (which we find out about 5 months late and unaudited) and there's no plan to do operate in any substantially different way. Do the same and expect a different result? Reading the President's report you wouldn't get a sense of the crisis at hand either; it's full of head-in-the-sand, back-patting platitudes like "I am very proud of the work that has been achieved by CV in the last 12 months." and thanks to "stalwarts" who are perpetuating the poor quality and petty, selfish culture of the organisation. The only beneficiaries of the decline over the last 4 years have been the commercial businesses run by committee members. As members of the Victorian Chess community we need to take responsibility as well. We need to ask tough questions, demand results and set high expectations of our executive. If you have any care for the fate of CV, you should come along to the CV Special General Meeting; Sunday February 27th. Venue Melbourne Chess Club starting time 5.00 pm. It could be the last one before the money runs out and the rats flee the ship... Chess is booming in Victoria. So if it cost $17,000 to make that happen, its money well spent in my opinion. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

02-22-2011, 12:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by Just2Good Chess is booming in Victoria. So if it cost $17,000 to make that happen, its money well spent in my opinion. No doubt about that, however, and let's be honest about it! If this alleged deficit was about NSWCA what would you 've said?

02-22-2011, 06:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by JaK No doubt about that, however, and let's be honest about it! If this alleged deficit was about NSWCA what would you 've said? I would have said that the loss does not reflect the growth in the game for that state. In Victoria, the loss has translated into unimaginable growth for the game, even at the junior level. Its the difference between spending money and getting a terrific result versus spending money with nothing to show for it (like the NSWCA). __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

02-21-2011, 04:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	do they own their own premises? And why not?

02-21-2011, 11:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	we know that Moz can duck, bob and weave thru any maze so just move onto the next guy that you want to hang

02-22-2011, 12:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by Just2Good I would have said that the loss does not reflect the growth in the game for that state. In Victoria, the loss has translated into unimaginable growth for the game, even at the junior level. Its the difference between spending money and getting a terrific result versus spending money with nothing to show for it (like the NSWCA). well staging events as the AUS Open, and SIO isn't exactly nothing! Why don't we concentrate on campaigns to have similar events staged in Victoria as well as other states? However, I must emphasise that Melbourne Chess Club's Melbourne Cup of Chess is forming up as one of the most important tournaments in Australia! Similarly and in my opinion most importantly THE AUS JUNIOR CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP staged by new forces in Victorian Chess away from the main city area is definitely the event of the year! I should add here the invaluable assistance of the AJCL for the successfull completion of this event! Last edited by JaK : 02-22-2011 at 08:40 PM

02-22-2011, 01:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	If CV had spent $17,000 to develop chess then sure, no problems. That's why CV exists. Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them. The boom is thanks to coaches having spent 10-15 years building chess in schools, then clubs like Croydon, Box Hill, Ranges, MCC and others who take those school-kids and give them a place to play and develop. The boom we're experiencing in Victoria would have happened without CV.... The losses are just poor management, you can't dress it up as 'investment in the development of chess'.... CV budgeted for a $1940 surplus and ended with a $6600 loss. There was no $8500 development plan...

02-22-2011, 08:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by ChessGuru If CV had spent $17,000 to develop chess then sure, no problems. That's why CV exists. Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them. The boom is thanks to coaches having spent 10-15 years building chess in schools, then clubs like Croydon, Box Hill, Ranges, MCC and others who take those school-kids and give them a place to play and develop. The boom we're experiencing in Victoria would have happened without CV.... The losses are just poor management, you can't dress it up as 'investment in the development of chess'.... CV budgeted for a $1940 surplus and ended with a $6600 loss. There was no $8500 development plan... sounds like what GW Bush did for America, now the same Repub supporters want to blame Obama for the clean-up

02-23-2011, 12:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by ChessGuru Chess is booming in Victoria despite CV, not because of them. Quite possibly. I am not in Victoria so I don't really know for sure what's going on there. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

02-27-2011, 07:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	Well - meeting over. Bit of fun. Financials not passed. Another meeting to follow! Disappointing that the Chairperson cut short some good discussions just as they were getting started. I hope that Darryl and I can have a chat about the issues again another time. Message to Darryl: all we (the chess community) are asking is that if you, in your CV VP role (and the same of all exec members), are presented with an option between +1 and -1 that you'll make the decision with what's best for CV first and not with what's best for your business. And if you can't do that, OK, just walk away and don't put yourself in that difficult situation. An extension of the same thing would be that if you are given a +0.75 option that you give your best efforts to improve it into a +1 option; even if it costs your private interests -0.5... try to come up with ideas that are + for CV. Just be CV when you're wearing the CV hat...that's why you were elected.

02-27-2011, 09:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kerry Stead Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 67	CG, Although you may have some useful ideas, perhaps your method of presenting it to the meeting could be improved ... perhaps in a less confrontational way. Obviously CV needs to do something different to turn its apparent downward financial trend in the right direction. Your suggestion of having CV run junior events itself may be something that could help this (there may of course be issues with such a plan, at least in the short-term, but that is not the point), but the essence of your argument was lost in your naming of CV executive members ... Either way, it seems like I need to do some reading regarding the Association Incorporations Act ... and prepare myself for another exciting SGM!

02-27-2011, 10:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
Pablito15 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 668	Looks like there will be an important motion to vote on next time, namely that CV run all the events shipped out to private companies itself and take whatever profit or loss that comes with it. It'd be nice to hear some discussion on what people think that will result in for chess in Victoria so we can make a more informed decision. On a personal level I'll say this: I don't think Chess Victoria is an institution that should be making a huge profit. I'd be fiercely against any membership fees to put more money in the pocket of CV to 'develop chess in Victoria' as frankly, as part of the majority (a club player who plays for fun, not a talented junior who might go somewhere, or a player looking for a title) the fact is that the clubs run a perfectly good program already for us. Any money sucked out of the majority of Chess Players for CV would not give much to your average club player. That being said, regarding tournaments, I'm sure we'd all be much more comfortable with a transparent, responsible body that have no interest in personal profit running things like the inter-schools in Victoria. __________________ My Blog!

02-28-2011, 11:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Kerry Stead ... and prepare myself for another exciting SGM! A Special General Meeting? Why is a SGM planned? __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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