CV's Upcoming Australasian Masters Event at Rochester Road - Page 2 - OzChess

**JaK** · 11-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

The issue is clear.

Not even close! Very unclear indeed!

Originally Posted by MOZ

The page needs a change imho.

Why? Because it provides misleading information which really creates the impression that this is indeed a CV organised event?

I republish it so you can try to comprehend its meaning better!

Originally Posted by CV Webpage Announcement

This year the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters which it will hold in December 2010

the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else?

the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else?

Originally Posted by MOZ

You are letting your ad hominen get the better of your logic process.

Ad Hominem Tu Quoque! Simply because you try to insult my intelligence!

Originally Posted by MOZ

Come back with your next view only after you have talked with the tournament organiser, Leonid.

I am not Leonid's apologist! Come back when you get your facts right, CV's website corrected and CV's declaration that they have nothing to do with the responsibility of financing and organising the tournament published.

BTW please enligthen us about the different venues (apart from the BHCC premises) that 7th and 12th Rounds will be held as referred to in CV's website!

I really hope that CV will make some arrangemens with MCC 1) to acknowledge their initial omission and 2) to make the Australasian Masters more representative!

**MOZ** · 11-26-2010, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

Not even close! Very unclear indeed!

Why? Because it provides misleading information which really creates the impression that this is indeed a CV organised event?

I republish it so you can try to comprehend its meaning better!

the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else?

the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else?

As I have said succinctly, clearly, and on a few occasions...the premise that Grant was relying on was incorrect.
In fact, the event will be a private promotion, with sponsors. It is not an event that CV owns.

I have no trouble comprehending the sentence you pasted from the web-site. I repeat, it needs change to match the responsibilities of the tournament.

Originally Posted by JaK

I am not Leonid's apologist! Come back when you get your facts right, CV's website corrected

I have already posted that I spoke with Leonid today and he confirmed what I said the very first post to Grant. Grant's premise is incorrect.
CV does not own the tournament.
My facts were right.
My facts have been confirmed today.

and CV's declaration that they have nothing to do with the responsibility of financing and organising the tournament published.

This is a new issue you introduce. The original issue was who owns the tournament, and thus gets to decide where it is played. CV does not own the tournament. CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played.

Originally Posted by JaK

BTW please enligthen us about the different venues (apart from the BHCC premises) that 7th and 12th Rounds will be held as referred to in CV's website!

This is another new issue you introduce.
The original issue was who owns the tournament, and thus gets to decide where it is played. CV does not own the tournament. CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played.

Originally Posted by JaK

I really hope that CV will make some arrangements with MCC 1) to acknowledge their initial omission and 2) to make the Australasian Masters more representative!

CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played.

**JaK** · 11-26-2010, 04:42 PM

The only official announcement of the tournament is made here:
(Here as in CV's website)
it clearly states:

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by CV Webpage Announcement

This year the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters which it will hold in December 2010

Originally Posted by JaK

the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else?
the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else?

GET IT!!!
People aren't interested about your riddles! Let people from CV who published the information on their website in the first place deal with it. You are not a CV person! If you are an organiser and you want to clarify your position or feel that your interests are threatened or something, make a statement as an organiser. So far, the only website that publishes information about the blessed tournament is CV's website. That's where I took the news about change of venues for the 7th and 12th of December.

Here it is:

Originally Posted by CV Website

Venue: Box Hill Chess Club(3 Rochester Road, Canterbury)
Two rounds(December 7 and 12) will be played at different venue.

Sobriquet announced that more information about the draw and stuff will be pubished on CV's website!

Originally Posted by Sobriquet

Australasian Masters 2010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The likely field

Players in not particular order.

1.Eddy Levi ---- FM--- Australia---- FIDE rating 2228

2.Mirko Rujevic-----IM---Australia----rating 2296

3.Stephen Solomon----IM --- Australia -- rating 2397

4.Bobby Cheng--- FM---Australia---rating 2316

5.James Morris--- IM----Australia--- rating 2240

6.Max Illingworth----FM---Australia--- rating 2304

7.Carl Gorka---England---rating 2179

8.Erik Teichmann FM------England---rating 2388

9.Vladimir Smirnov----FM---Russia--- 2379

10.Mike Steadman---FM---New Zealand--- 2285

Average FIDE rating 2301.2

International Master Norm 6.5 points from 9 games
Leonid Sandler will make pairings soon.

Additional information on the tournament will be posted on this web-page:
2010 Australasian Masters

I provide the website since, SOBriquet (Are you SOBriguet?

) does not refer to his/her posting in the proper source but on a thread variation:
2010 Australasian Masters

**MOZ** · 11-26-2010, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

The only official announcement of the tournament is made here:
(Here as in CV's website)
it clearly states:

GET IT!!!
People aren't interested about your riddles! Let people from CV who published the information on their website in the first place deal with it. You are not a CV person! If you are an organiser and you want to clarify your position or feel that your interests are threatened or something, make a statement as an organiser. So far, the only website that publishes information about the blessed tournament is CV's website. That's where I took the news about change of venues for the 7th and 12th of December. Sobriquet announced that more information about the draw and stuff will be pubished on CV's website!

The only reason that this thread has gone more than two posts is that you failed to accept that Grant's premise could possibly be incorrect (post #3).

Even Grant accepted it straight away and conditionally apologised.

Since then I have checked my facts and had them confirmed.

I have suggested you ring Leonid and ask. But you have tabled nothing.

If you stopped logging new issue after new issue; and if you phoned and asked about the original issue the thread would peter out straight away.

CV does not own the 2010 Australian Masters.
CV did not discuss, nor decide where the event would be held.

**JaK** · 11-26-2010, 05:05 PM

LOL
Do you call this a conditional apology???

Originally Posted by Grant

So, on their very own website, CV are taking responsibility for an event that they are not even running??? Wait til Cordover hears about this!!!

BTW

I have published a NO. of CV's Australasian Masters' related statements on the official CV's website, are you prepared to suggest they they are ALL wrong????
If not, which ones would you leave as they are?

**JaK** · 11-26-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

The only reason that this thread has gone more than two posts is that you failed to accept that Grant's premise could possibly be incorrect (post #3).

Why does it bother you? This is an open Forum which encourages public discussion! Analysing and presenting opinions and ideas is a positive aspect.
We don't have to agree in everything do we???

**Axiom** · 11-26-2010, 05:19 PM

There are a number of issues here , which we need to take care not to blur or conflate .

One is the the false cue of Grant's conclusion , another is the false reporting from CV and finally there is the underlying question of transparency in decision making and the effective communication of such .

**antichrist** · 11-26-2010, 06:36 PM

KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha

**MOZ** · 11-26-2010, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

LOL
Do you call this a conditional apology???

No, I took the phrase from this post from Grant.

BTW

I have published a NO. of CV's Australasian Masters' related statements on the official CV's website, are you prepared to suggest...

No.
I have no interest in reviewing that task.

My interest was to bring clarity to Grant's question which was based on an incorrect premise. It is important that this single international Victorian tournament is fostered, but in the proper way. It would not be proper for Chess Victoria to own a restricted invitational event. Chess Victoria should stick to owning tournaments that are essentially open to all Victorians. It is proper to assist others like the 2009 Cup week-ender, and the 2011 Australian Junior.

Originally Posted by JaK

they they are ALL wrong????
If not, which ones would you leave as they are?

The proper people to do that review are the CV Committee and the web-master; I pass on that review.

**MOZ** · 11-26-2010, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

There are a number of issues here , which we need to take care not to blur or conflate .

One is the the false cue of Grant's conclusion , another is the false reporting from CV and finally there is the underlying question of transparency in decision making and the effective communication of such .

Excellent post of yours Ax.

I have only been interested in 1).

The issue in 2) is regrettable, and in need of repair, a source of confusion; and false. So, it does not help Grant understand who made the decision.

The issue in 3) 'who gets invited to invitationals' has not been addressed before on either chatboard, afaicr.

Your implied advice to deal with them one at a time, separately; is very wise.

regards
Mexican OZ

**MOZ** · 11-26-2010, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha

hi a/c

I have taken on a few dubious causes in my time.
But there is not much point in debate if we are all in furious agreement with one viewpoint.
So, debate is the essence of the search for clarity.

What's that you say....three sentences from me that are all generalities?
True. But you only gave me a generality to work with.

Nevertheless, thanks for your contribution.

MOZ*

**Axiom** · 11-27-2010, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha

Is this the same ringing in the ears you get on the issues of gun control, drug laws and carbon tax ?

Read post #22 then #25 and see if they strike a chord .

**antichrist** · 11-27-2010, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by MOZ

Good evening a/c

Nah. Give us the quality stuff instead
Hangman

Sprouty's weather reports from Arizona

Does God Exist

and then the NOW forum would really zing.

Moz
Off todays SB at CC

this morning is very cold & crisp & clear outside oh and Freezing in aZ :S
27-11-2010 02:09 AM littlesprout85 < - - - -- survived another Thanksgiving

I should inform you that Sprouty is a well-loved and well respected poster at CC

11-26-2010, 02:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by MOZ The issue is clear. Not even close! Very unclear indeed! Originally Posted by MOZ The page needs a change imho. Why? Because it provides misleading information which really creates the impression that this is indeed a CV organised event? I republish it so you can try to comprehend its meaning better! Originally Posted by CV Webpage Announcement This year the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters which it will hold in December 2010 the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else? the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else? Originally Posted by MOZ You are letting your ad hominen get the better of your logic process. Ad Hominem Tu Quoque! Simply because you try to insult my intelligence! Originally Posted by MOZ Come back with your next view only after you have talked with the tournament organiser, Leonid. I am not Leonid's apologist! Come back when you get your facts right, CV's website corrected and CV's declaration that they have nothing to do with the responsibility of financing and organising the tournament published. BTW please enligthen us about the different venues (apart from the BHCC premises) that 7th and 12th Rounds will be held as referred to in CV's website! I really hope that CV will make some arrangemens with MCC 1) to acknowledge their initial omission and 2) to make the Australasian Masters more representative!

11-26-2010, 03:25 PM	#17 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by JaK Not even close! Very unclear indeed! Why? Because it provides misleading information which really creates the impression that this is indeed a CV organised event? I republish it so you can try to comprehend its meaning better! the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else? the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else? As I have said succinctly, clearly, and on a few occasions...the premise that Grant was relying on was incorrect. In fact, the event will be a private promotion, with sponsors. It is not an event that CV owns. I have no trouble comprehending the sentence you pasted from the web-site. I repeat, it needs change to match the responsibilities of the tournament. Originally Posted by JaK I am not Leonid's apologist! Come back when you get your facts right, CV's website corrected I have already posted that I spoke with Leonid today and he confirmed what I said the very first post to Grant. Grant's premise is incorrect. CV does not own the tournament. My facts were right. My facts have been confirmed today. and CV's declaration that they have nothing to do with the responsibility of financing and organising the tournament published. This is a new issue you introduce. The original issue was who owns the tournament, and thus gets to decide where it is played. CV does not own the tournament. CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played. Originally Posted by JaK BTW please enligthen us about the different venues (apart from the BHCC premises) that 7th and 12th Rounds will be held as referred to in CV's website! This is another new issue you introduce. The original issue was who owns the tournament, and thus gets to decide where it is played. CV does not own the tournament. CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played. Originally Posted by JaK I really hope that CV will make some arrangements with MCC 1) to acknowledge their initial omission and 2) to make the Australasian Masters more representative! CV did not discuss nor decide where it was to be played. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-26-2010, 04:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	The only official announcement of the tournament is made here: (Here as in CV's website) it clearly states: Originally Posted by Originally Posted by CV Webpage Announcement This year the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters which it will hold in December 2010 Originally Posted by JaK the "this year" part emphasises the fact that this is a new situation as opposed to last and/or previous years right? If not what else? the "the CV executive has accepted responsibility for the Australasian Masters" emphasises the fact the CV executive has accepted financial and organisational responsibility of the tournament, right? If not, what else? GET IT!!! People aren't interested about your riddles! Let people from CV who published the information on their website in the first place deal with it. You are not a CV person! If you are an organiser and you want to clarify your position or feel that your interests are threatened or something, make a statement as an organiser. So far, the only website that publishes information about the blessed tournament is CV's website. That's where I took the news about change of venues for the 7th and 12th of December. Here it is: Originally Posted by CV Website Venue: Box Hill Chess Club(3 Rochester Road, Canterbury) Two rounds(December 7 and 12) will be played at different venue. Sobriquet announced that more information about the draw and stuff will be pubished on CV's website! Originally Posted by Sobriquet Australasian Masters 2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The likely field Players in not particular order. 1.Eddy Levi ---- FM--- Australia---- FIDE rating 2228 2.Mirko Rujevic-----IM---Australia----rating 2296 3.Stephen Solomon----IM --- Australia -- rating 2397 4.Bobby Cheng--- FM---Australia---rating 2316 5.James Morris--- IM----Australia--- rating 2240 6.Max Illingworth----FM---Australia--- rating 2304 7.Carl Gorka---England---rating 2179 8.Erik Teichmann FM------England---rating 2388 9.Vladimir Smirnov----FM---Russia--- 2379 10.Mike Steadman---FM---New Zealand--- 2285 Average FIDE rating 2301.2 International Master Norm 6.5 points from 9 games Leonid Sandler will make pairings soon. Additional information on the tournament will be posted on this web-page: 2010 Australasian Masters I provide the website since, SOBriquet (Are you SOBriguet? ) does not refer to his/her posting in the proper source but on a thread variation: 2010 Australasian Masters Last edited by JaK : 11-26-2010 at 04:56 PM

11-26-2010, 04:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	No riddles involved. Just the simple, who owns and who decided. Originally Posted by JaK The only official announcement of the tournament is made here: (Here as in CV's website) it clearly states: GET IT!!! People aren't interested about your riddles! Let people from CV who published the information on their website in the first place deal with it. You are not a CV person! If you are an organiser and you want to clarify your position or feel that your interests are threatened or something, make a statement as an organiser. So far, the only website that publishes information about the blessed tournament is CV's website. That's where I took the news about change of venues for the 7th and 12th of December. Sobriquet announced that more information about the draw and stuff will be pubished on CV's website! The only reason that this thread has gone more than two posts is that you failed to accept that Grant's premise could possibly be incorrect (post #3). Even Grant accepted it straight away and conditionally apologised. Since then I have checked my facts and had them confirmed. I have suggested you ring Leonid and ask. But you have tabled nothing. If you stopped logging new issue after new issue; and if you phoned and asked about the original issue the thread would peter out straight away. CV does not own the 2010 Australian Masters. CV did not discuss, nor decide where the event would be held. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-26-2010, 05:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	LOL Do you call this a conditional apology??? Originally Posted by Grant So, on their very own website, CV are taking responsibility for an event that they are not even running??? Wait til Cordover hears about this!!! BTW I have published a NO. of CV's Australasian Masters' related statements on the official CV's website, are you prepared to suggest they they are ALL wrong???? If not, which ones would you leave as they are?

11-26-2010, 05:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by MOZ The only reason that this thread has gone more than two posts is that you failed to accept that Grant's premise could possibly be incorrect (post #3). Why does it bother you? This is an open Forum which encourages public discussion! Analysing and presenting opinions and ideas is a positive aspect. We don't have to agree in everything do we???

11-26-2010, 05:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	There are a number of issues here , which we need to take care not to blur or conflate . One is the the false cue of Grant's conclusion , another is the false reporting from CV and finally there is the underlying question of transparency in decision making and the effective communication of such . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

11-26-2010, 06:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha

11-26-2010, 10:42 PM	#24 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by JaK LOL Do you call this a conditional apology??? No, I took the phrase from this post from Grant. BTW I have published a NO. of CV's Australasian Masters' related statements on the official CV's website, are you prepared to suggest... No. I have no interest in reviewing that task. My interest was to bring clarity to Grant's question which was based on an incorrect premise. It is important that this single international Victorian tournament is fostered, but in the proper way. It would not be proper for Chess Victoria to own a restricted invitational event. Chess Victoria should stick to owning tournaments that are essentially open to all Victorians. It is proper to assist others like the 2009 Cup week-ender, and the 2011 Australian Junior. Originally Posted by JaK they they are ALL wrong???? If not, which ones would you leave as they are? The proper people to do that review are the CV Committee and the web-master; I pass on that review. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-26-2010, 11:29 PM	#25 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by Axiom There are a number of issues here , which we need to take care not to blur or conflate . One is the the false cue of Grant's conclusion , another is the false reporting from CV and finally there is the underlying question of transparency in decision making and the effective communication of such . Excellent post of yours Ax. I have only been interested in 1). The issue in 2) is regrettable, and in need of repair, a source of confusion; and false. So, it does not help Grant understand who made the decision. The issue in 3) 'who gets invited to invitationals' has not been addressed before on either chatboard, afaicr. Your implied advice to deal with them one at a time, separately; is very wise. regards Mexican OZ __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-26-2010, 11:33 PM	#26 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Short on specifics. Originally Posted by antichrist KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha hi a/c I have taken on a few dubious causes in my time. But there is not much point in debate if we are all in furious agreement with one viewpoint. So, debate is the essence of the search for clarity. What's that you say....three sentences from me that are all generalities? True. But you only gave me a generality to work with. Nevertheless, thanks for your contribution. MOZ* __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

11-27-2010, 01:46 AM	#27 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Ring Ring Originally Posted by antichrist KB's golden words ring in my ears: Moz never resigns in debate when he is wrong - ha ha Is this the same ringing in the ears you get on the issues of gun control, drug laws and carbon tax ? Read post #22 then #25 and see if they strike a chord . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom Last edited by Axiom : 11-27-2010 at 02:30 AM

11-27-2010, 06:36 AM	#28 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by MOZ Good evening a/c Nah. Give us the quality stuff instead Hangman Sprouty's weather reports from Arizona Does God Exist and then the NOW forum would really zing. Moz Off todays SB at CC this morning is very cold & crisp & clear outside oh and Freezing in aZ :S 27-11-2010 02:09 AM littlesprout85 < - - - -- survived another Thanksgiving I should inform you that Sprouty is a well-loved and well respected poster at CC

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