Improving The CV Website! - OzChess

**ChessGuru** · 12-07-2009, 08:33 PM

Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com).

CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations.

Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create.

**Axiom** · 12-07-2009, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com).

CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations.

Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create.

Faultless advice .

Axiomatic : Effective Communications is paramount to any admin body .

A web site should be the show/centre piece of any organisation .

**flavid dude** · 12-07-2009, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com).

CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations.

Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create.

In this case you are right on the money. I checked with a
professional web designer who told me the cost of a full tilt
Content management system web site if professionally built would be
$100,000 dollars. I have looked at the source code of quite a few web
sites including Chess kids and what stands out very clearly is that
Chess Victoria probably needs to use legal free software in the
public domain as much as possible and use a team of volunteers to
build the web page. The first step is to try and determine what the
users wish list is. In any IT system there tends to be a compromise
between what the user wants and what is affordable. However you
cannot get this compromise correct unless you first identify what the
user would like, then see what software is available and then
determine what you are going to do. The rule of thumb is that you can
get 90% of the benefit for sixty per cent of the cost. In the case of
Chess Victoria I think that we can do even better.

May I suggest that to get things underway that you start a new thread
and outline your views. I promise to make only constructive comments .

justaknight · 12-08-2009, 01:11 AM

Why another thread? Points expressed by David here are very clear and to the point. There is not spitefull hints here and I think what is said very much reflects statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website is one of his and his committee's important priorities!

**Just2Good** · 12-08-2009, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Axiom

Faultless advice .

Axiomatic : Effective Communications is paramount to any admin body .

A web site should be the show/centre piece of any organisation .

Well said Axiom, well said!

**flavid dude** · 12-08-2009, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by justaknight

Why another thread? Points expressed by David here are very clear and to the point. There is not spiteful hints here and I think what is said very much reflects statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website is one of his and his committee's important priorities!

Who said it was spiteful. I thought it was very constructive.

The reasons I have suggested another thread is that this is very likely to involve some techical points that may not interest the general reader and more importantly there is a great deal to discuss and therefore a separate thread is warranted.

Soon I am going to write a posting about meta tags which will interest people who construct club web pages, the Chess Victoria web page or commercial web pages.

In the meantime do a google search on Melbourne Chess club and see which other chess clubs appear ahead of the Melbourne Chess Club. Are you interested in the solution to this hassle.

**Arcimboldo** · 12-08-2009, 07:53 AM

It is a good point by the thread creator that much time needs to be spent on defining the terms of reference of any task such as a web-site revamp.

In the context of the first post 'a genuine consultative process with regards re-designing their website', and the fourth post 'statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website', we need clarification of why the fifth poster jumped to quite a different scope and spoke of ' a full tilt Content management system web site if professionally built would be $100,000 dollars'.

Some restorative work on the current site for more content, or change of 'look and feel', or more regular updates, or just simply re-organization of existing data, may be achieved quickly.
Does anyone have a list of comments made about the drawbacks of the current site?
Unless this list is sizeable then to jettison the existing site and face a new site BUILD and a MIGRATION of existing data would be unwise.

**flavid dude** · 12-08-2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Arcimboldo

It is a good point by the thread creator that much time needs to be spent on defining the terms of reference of any task such as a web-site revamp.

I totally agree

In the context of the first post 'a genuine consultative process with regards re-designing their website', and the fourth post 'statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website', we need clarification of why the fifth poster jumped to quite a different scope and spoke of ' a full tilt Content management system web site if professionally built would be $100,000 dollars'.

On his web site Chess Guru described what was in most ways a content management system for Chess Victoria. I obviously did not elucidate clearly what I meant, which is that this would be a major task and possibly beyond Chess Victoria resources at this time.

Some restorative work on the current site for more content, or change of 'look and feel', or more regular updates, or just simply re-organization of existing data, may be achieved quickly.

Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process

Does anyone have a list of comments made about the drawbacks of the current site?
Unless this list is sizeable then to jettison the existing site and face a new site BUILD and a MIGRATION of existing data would be unwise.

We need to get this list together.

Furthermore I have the impression that everyone writing on this subject is trying to be constructive.

**Lakshman** · 12-08-2009, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by flavid dude

I totally agree

On his web site Chess Guru described what was in most ways a content management system for Chess Victoria. I obviously did not elucidate clearly what I meant, which is that this would be a major task and possibly beyond Chess Victoria resources at this time.

Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process

We need to get this list together.

Originally Posted by flavid dude

Furthermore I have the impression that everyone writing on this subject is trying to be constructive.

Well said David F

**ChessGuru** · 12-08-2009, 03:24 PM

OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff.

1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management - it is without doubt the best FREE software available at the moment. (Will do much more than your custom built $100,000 software).

2. Use Plug-Ins to give you all the functionality you require (free)

3. Pay a Graphic Designer to give you some excellent design - based around your intended users needs (cost about $500) and then install the design as a template over the WordPress back-end.

4. Use something like MailChimp to manage your email list and e-newsletters (FREE initially)

There is a LOT more that can be done - and all for under $1000. I think the CV $3k budget was very generous.

Timeframes
Consultations: 2 weeks
Planning: 1 week
Design: 2 weeks
Implementation: 60 seconds

I'd like to see the website live and fully functional by Feb 1st.

Migration of data is easy. WordPress supports multiple users, so you can have clubs with their own sections, many volunteers using the site and collaborating on content, shared calendars and more.

As I've been saying all along - the first step is a VISION.

**Just2Good** · 12-08-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff.

1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management -

What is wordpress, and what does it do?

**Arcimboldo** · 12-09-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by flavid dude

Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process

A potential consultative approach is to use bulletin board posts made on this topic in the past. Such posts seem to have harped on the content of the current site being a fraction tardy on occasions. Of course the solution for this problem is for more attention to made to providing information to the webmaster in good time. No re-design necessary on this score.

We need to get this list together.

Getting a list of new requirements from stake-holders is best practice. Post 10 is out of place by jumping to solution-mode before defining the problem.

**Ninja** · 12-09-2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff.

1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management - it is without doubt the best FREE software available at the moment. (Will do much more than your custom built $100,000 software).

2. Use Plug-Ins to give you all the functionality you require (free)

3. Pay a Graphic Designer to give you some excellent design - based around your intended users needs (cost about $500) and then install the design as a template over the WordPress back-end.

4. Use something like MailChimp to manage your email list and e-newsletters (FREE initially)

There is a LOT more that can be done - and all for under $1000. I think the CV $3k budget was very generous.

Timeframes
Consultations: 2 weeks
Planning: 1 week
Design: 2 weeks
Implementation: 60 seconds

I'd like to see the website live and fully functional by Feb 1st.

Migration of data is easy. WordPress supports multiple users, so you can have clubs with their own sections, many volunteers using the site and collaborating on content, shared calendars and more.

As I've been saying all along - the first step is a VISION.

OK David, Chance to show what you are really made of

Time to put your money where your mouth is relating to your desire to help CV. Lets see Chess Kids donate a fully working website to CV.
Cost you less than a$1k and I am sure CV would accept your gift with a small banner on the page acknowledging your business's donation.

Write it all off as a tax deduction and the end cost to you will be less than #500 for a heap of good advertising.

Don't forget the timeline. If a volunteer group can do it in 5 weeks I would expect a highly organised business with all your contacts should be able to have it up and running by Christmas

**Axiom** · 12-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ninja

OK David, Chance to show what you are really made of
Time to put your money where your mouth is relating to your desire to help CV. Lets see Chess Kids donate a fully working website to CV.
Cost you less than a$1k and I am sure CV would accept your gift with a small banner on the page acknowledging your business's donation.

Write it all off as a tax deduction and the end cost to you will be less than #500 for a heap of good advertising.

Don't forget the timeline. If a volunteer group can do it in 5 weeks I would expect a highly organised business with all your contacts should be able to have it up and running by Christmas

that might actually be a reasonable investment .

justaknight · 12-09-2009, 09:37 PM

Indeed it is! I am ready to put my money where my mouth is and contribute if there is a genuine spirit of co-operation toward it.
BTW someone who has achieved this
Chess Kids
must know what they are talking about!

12-07-2009, 08:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	Improving The CV Website! Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com). CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations. Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create.

12-07-2009, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Axiomatic C V Originally Posted by ChessGuru Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com). CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations. Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create. Faultless advice . Axiomatic : Effective Communications is paramount to any admin body . A web site should be the show/centre piece of any organisation . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

12-07-2009, 11:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
flavid dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 336	yes yes and yes Originally Posted by ChessGuru Another thing I'd like to see CV doing this week is a genuine consulative process with regards re-designing their website (hopefully online at www.chessvictoria.com). CV put $3000 in their budget to design a new website - but before they go to the designers and give away the clubs hard earned money they need to have a VERY CLEAR brief and set of expectations. Before they can be clear in giving instructions to the web-designer they need to spend a while getting feedback from clubs and individuals about what THEY would want in a website....otherwise Victoria will be $3000 worse off and have a slightly better looking website, but with no functional difference. 99% of good web-design is in the planning and understanding the user-experience you are trying to create. In this case you are right on the money. I checked with a professional web designer who told me the cost of a full tilt Content management system web site if professionally built would be $100,000 dollars. I have looked at the source code of quite a few web sites including Chess kids and what stands out very clearly is that Chess Victoria probably needs to use legal free software in the public domain as much as possible and use a team of volunteers to build the web page. The first step is to try and determine what the users wish list is. In any IT system there tends to be a compromise between what the user wants and what is affordable. However you cannot get this compromise correct unless you first identify what the user would like, then see what software is available and then determine what you are going to do. The rule of thumb is that you can get 90% of the benefit for sixty per cent of the cost. In the case of Chess Victoria I think that we can do even better. May I suggest that to get things underway that you start a new thread and outline your views. I promise to make only constructive comments .

12-08-2009, 01:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
justaknight Suspended Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 282	why another thread? Why another thread? Points expressed by David here are very clear and to the point. There is not spitefull hints here and I think what is said very much reflects statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website is one of his and his committee's important priorities!

12-08-2009, 01:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Designing a New CV Website Originally Posted by Axiom Faultless advice . Axiomatic : Effective Communications is paramount to any admin body . A web site should be the show/centre piece of any organisation . Well said Axiom, well said! __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-08-2009, 04:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
flavid dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 336	Why I suggested a separate thread. Originally Posted by justaknight Why another thread? Points expressed by David here are very clear and to the point. There is not spiteful hints here and I think what is said very much reflects statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website is one of his and his committee's important priorities! Who said it was spiteful. I thought it was very constructive. The reasons I have suggested another thread is that this is very likely to involve some techical points that may not interest the general reader and more importantly there is a great deal to discuss and therefore a separate thread is warranted. Soon I am going to write a posting about meta tags which will interest people who construct club web pages, the Chess Victoria web page or commercial web pages. In the meantime do a google search on Melbourne Chess club and see which other chess clubs appear ahead of the Melbourne Chess Club. Are you interested in the solution to this hassle.

12-08-2009, 07:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
Arcimboldo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 21	It is a good point by the thread creator that much time needs to be spent on defining the terms of reference of any task such as a web-site revamp. In the context of the first post 'a genuine consultative process with regards re-designing their website', and the fourth post 'statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website', we need clarification of why the fifth poster jumped to quite a different scope and spoke of ' a full tilt Content management system web site if professionally built would be $100,000 dollars'. Some restorative work on the current site for more content, or change of 'look and feel', or more regular updates, or just simply re-organization of existing data, may be achieved quickly. Does anyone have a list of comments made about the drawbacks of the current site? Unless this list is sizeable then to jettison the existing site and face a new site BUILD and a MIGRATION of existing data would be unwise.

12-08-2009, 11:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
flavid dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 336	good points Originally Posted by Arcimboldo It is a good point by the thread creator that much time needs to be spent on defining the terms of reference of any task such as a web-site revamp. I totally agree In the context of the first post 'a genuine consultative process with regards re-designing their website', and the fourth post 'statements by the new CV Pres who has promised that the improvement of the website', we need clarification of why the fifth poster jumped to quite a different scope and spoke of ' a full tilt Content management system web site if professionally built would be $100,000 dollars'. On his web site Chess Guru described what was in most ways a content management system for Chess Victoria. I obviously did not elucidate clearly what I meant, which is that this would be a major task and possibly beyond Chess Victoria resources at this time. Some restorative work on the current site for more content, or change of 'look and feel', or more regular updates, or just simply re-organization of existing data, may be achieved quickly. Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process Does anyone have a list of comments made about the drawbacks of the current site? Unless this list is sizeable then to jettison the existing site and face a new site BUILD and a MIGRATION of existing data would be unwise. We need to get this list together. Furthermore I have the impression that everyone writing on this subject is trying to be constructive.

12-08-2009, 11:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lakshman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 329	Originally Posted by flavid dude I totally agree On his web site Chess Guru described what was in most ways a content management system for Chess Victoria. I obviously did not elucidate clearly what I meant, which is that this would be a major task and possibly beyond Chess Victoria resources at this time. Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process We need to get this list together. Originally Posted by flavid dude Furthermore I have the impression that everyone writing on this subject is trying to be constructive. Well said David F __________________ God is Great

12-08-2009, 03:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff. 1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management - it is without doubt the best FREE software available at the moment. (Will do much more than your custom built $100,000 software). 2. Use Plug-Ins to give you all the functionality you require (free) 3. Pay a Graphic Designer to give you some excellent design - based around your intended users needs (cost about $500) and then install the design as a template over the WordPress back-end. 4. Use something like MailChimp to manage your email list and e-newsletters (FREE initially) There is a LOT more that can be done - and all for under $1000. I think the CV $3k budget was very generous. Timeframes Consultations: 2 weeks Planning: 1 week Design: 2 weeks Implementation: 60 seconds I'd like to see the website live and fully functional by Feb 1st. Migration of data is easy. WordPress supports multiple users, so you can have clubs with their own sections, many volunteers using the site and collaborating on content, shared calendars and more. As I've been saying all along - the first step is a VISION.

12-08-2009, 06:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Wordpress? Originally Posted by ChessGuru OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff. 1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management - What is wordpress, and what does it do? __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

12-09-2009, 10:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
Arcimboldo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 21	Originally Posted by flavid dude Yes but as David pointed out we need to involve the clubs in a consultative process A potential consultative approach is to use bulletin board posts made on this topic in the past. Such posts seem to have harped on the content of the current site being a fraction tardy on occasions. Of course the solution for this problem is for more attention to made to providing information to the webmaster in good time. No re-design necessary on this score. We need to get this list together. Getting a list of new requirements from stake-holders is best practice. Post 10 is out of place by jumping to solution-mode before defining the problem.

12-09-2009, 08:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ninja Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 124	Originally Posted by ChessGuru OK - here's the simple nuts and bolts of the technical stuff. 1. Use WORDPRESS as your Content Management - it is without doubt the best FREE software available at the moment. (Will do much more than your custom built $100,000 software). 2. Use Plug-Ins to give you all the functionality you require (free) 3. Pay a Graphic Designer to give you some excellent design - based around your intended users needs (cost about $500) and then install the design as a template over the WordPress back-end. 4. Use something like MailChimp to manage your email list and e-newsletters (FREE initially) There is a LOT more that can be done - and all for under $1000. I think the CV $3k budget was very generous. Timeframes Consultations: 2 weeks Planning: 1 week Design: 2 weeks Implementation: 60 seconds I'd like to see the website live and fully functional by Feb 1st. Migration of data is easy. WordPress supports multiple users, so you can have clubs with their own sections, many volunteers using the site and collaborating on content, shared calendars and more. As I've been saying all along - the first step is a VISION. OK David, Chance to show what you are really made of Time to put your money where your mouth is relating to your desire to help CV. Lets see Chess Kids donate a fully working website to CV. Cost you less than a$1k and I am sure CV would accept your gift with a small banner on the page acknowledging your business's donation. Write it all off as a tax deduction and the end cost to you will be less than #500 for a heap of good advertising. Don't forget the timeline. If a volunteer group can do it in 5 weeks I would expect a highly organised business with all your contacts should be able to have it up and running by Christmas

12-09-2009, 09:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Ninja OK David, Chance to show what you are really made of Time to put your money where your mouth is relating to your desire to help CV. Lets see Chess Kids donate a fully working website to CV. Cost you less than a$1k and I am sure CV would accept your gift with a small banner on the page acknowledging your business's donation. Write it all off as a tax deduction and the end cost to you will be less than #500 for a heap of good advertising. Don't forget the timeline. If a volunteer group can do it in 5 weeks I would expect a highly organised business with all your contacts should be able to have it up and running by Christmas that might actually be a reasonable investment . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

12-09-2009, 09:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
justaknight Suspended Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 282	Indeed it is! I am ready to put my money where my mouth is and contribute if there is a genuine spirit of co-operation toward it. BTW someone who has achieved this Chess Kids must know what they are talking about!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: