2009 Victorian Championships - Page 12 - OzChess

**Il cavaliere inesistente** · 10-29-2009, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

I jest, but as a watercolor painter, do you consider tone important?
More of a colourist in the footsteps of Signac

Never been an issue at MCC.
He gives trouble everywhere else. Perhaps he could be made to stay at his homeground.

Agreed. There are a couple of other considerations.
1) The tournament is a round robin
2) Flude was an extremely late entrant
3) Player numbers for the event were poor.
4) A player withdrawal would almost have wrecked the tournament

In the standing of the tournament, yes of course. From a chessplaying perspective, no he wasn't.

cheers,

Flude only entered because he was asked to make up the numbers
Thank you for this discussion I am sure we both have other things to do

**flavid dude** · 10-29-2009, 06:54 PM

In the standing of the tournament, yes of course. From a chessplaying perspective, no he wasn't.

cheers,

I travelled half way across Melbourne, had to wait for a long period, completely wasted a day. That is no disadvantage.

Oh and by the way I was the travelling emergency in case anyone withdrew at the last moment who at nine o'clock on the day agreed to pick up another player so as the tournament would not collapse.

I have not made any criticism of the appeals committee.

**Firegoat7** · 10-29-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by flavid dude

I travelled half way across Melbourne, had to wait for a long period, completely wasted a day. That is no disadvantage.

Oh and by the way I was the travelling emergency in case anyone withdrew at the last moment who at nine o'clock on the day agreed to pick up another player so as the tournament would not collapse.

In other words, if I am reading this correctly, you would have preferred to win on forfeit and not have played the replayed game. Thats a fair enough decision if you want to gain points in the tournament. But, from a chess playing perspective, don't you enter tournaments to play chess games?
It is pretty clear that the organisers cannot make up their minds about whether the reserves are a serious tournament or a mickey mouse club event.

Originally Posted by flavid dude

I have not made any criticism of the appeals committee.

Well this is a matter of personal taste. Personally I would have withdrawn from the tournament if I had been asked to accept a decision that I could not stomach.

cheers,

**Axiom** · 10-29-2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

In other words, if I am reading this correctly, you would have preferred to win on forfeit and not have played the replayed game. Thats a fair enough decision if you want to gain points in the tournament. But, from a chess playing perspective, don't you enter tournaments to play chess games?
It is pretty clear that the organisers cannot make up their minds about whether the reserves are a serious tournament or a mickey mouse club event.

Well this is a matter of personal taste. Personally I would have withdrawn from the tournament if I had been asked to accept a decision that I could not stomach.

cheers,

just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ?

**Firegoat7** · 10-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ?

I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion.

cheers,

justaknight · 10-29-2009, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ?

Hey Ax, if you can just drop in and enjoy the atmosphere this tournament generates. Despite some hype about David and Nikola and Fludey and Roger, it's as friendly as! Dave is happy, looks like he is having a great time, we talked about his kids progress the other day, he is in fine form and I think his encounter with Mehmet will decide the Reserves event!
Both tournaments are great and players give their all but fun is fun!
I whinged a little to Gary just to hype myself up, didn't work!

Gary is a great guy always smiling and being friendly to everyone.
BTW Grant made a very welcome appearance at BHCC the other night, actually I think he is the only pres of any other club who gets in the car and visits around.

**Axiom** · 10-29-2009, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by justaknight

Hey Ax, if you can just drop in and enjoy the atmosphere this tournament generates. Despite some hype about David and Nikola and Fludey and Roger, it's as friendly as! Dave is happy, looks like he is having a great time, we talked about his kids progress the other day, he is in fine form and I think his encounter with Mehmet will decide the Reserves event!
Both tournaments are great and players give their all but fun is fun!
I whinged a little to Gary just to hype myself up, didn't work! Gary is a great guy always smiling and being friendly to everyone.
BTW Grant made a very welcome appearance at BHCC the other night, actually I think he is the only pres of any other club who gets in the car and visits around.

That may be all very well and good , but it's hardly tiger of the tundra or warrior on the edge of time stuff is it ?

**Axiom** · 10-29-2009, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion.

cheers,

No , that's quite ok , i was simply alluding to perhaps some contradiction there , between rules and rules.

**MOZ** · 10-30-2009, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion.

cheers,

What struck me about this appeal is the extraordinary number of non-relevant issues that were presented in the appeal document and subsequently in posts in cyber-space.
Sympathy points should have little place in an appeal process. What is important is to look at the key issue and decide this on chess, rules, tournament conditions, and equity grounds.
In this case fg7 has stood head and shoulders over other commentators with his good sense.
(Probably because he has had an opportunity to hear Beattie's case <which is unfortunately imbedded in much ...>).
It is a case of "if you have not read the appeal document then you are not aware of all the facts". In particular, the tipping fact.
And, no, I was not on the Appeals Committee.

Have a nice day
MOZ*

justaknight · 10-30-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

That may be all very well and good , but it's hardly tiger of the tundra or warrior on the edge of time stuff is it ?

Correct there Ax, but even tigers of the tundra and warriors on the edge of time deserve a bit of a break some time don't they? Well, even if not physically there yourself I am sure you will be aptly represented.

You can't leave the

run amok by himself!!!

**Axiom** · 10-30-2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

>).

ahem...

**MOZ** · 10-30-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

ahem...

Am I to read this that you want me to check back through your old posts to see what position you have adopted on this?
And, if you even been a proper reality analyst you will have reserved judgment until you had heard both sides of the trifecta?
And then ...

**Axiom** · 10-30-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by justaknight

Correct there Ax, but even tigers of the tundra and warriors on the edge of time deserve a bit of a break some time don't they? Well, even if not physically there yourself I am sure you will be aptly represented. You can't leave the run amok by himself!!!

yep, fair enough .

incidentally , you've reminded me of a great SCT delicacy- smoked goat meat and herbs wrapped in philo(sic) pastry served on a bed of dried fruit and nuts .

**Axiom** · 10-30-2009, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

Am I to read this that you want me to check back through your old posts to see what position you have adopted on this?
And, if you even been a proper reality analyst you will have reserved judgment until you had heard both sides of the trifecta?
And then ...

i was simply pointing out a possible contradiction within fg's paradigm .
ie. the seeming conflict between being a stickler for the letter of the law concerning a recent game of his , and the letter of the law when applied to another.

this was simply an axiomatic observation , not intended to be taken as judgement of the matter at hand .

**MOZ** · 10-30-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

i was simply pointing out a possible contradiction within fg's paradigm .
ie. the seeming conflict between being a stickler for the letter of the law concerning a recent game of his , and the letter of the law when applied to another.

this was simply an axiomatic observation , not intended to be taken as judgement of the matter at hand .

Ah. So I guessed wrong.
Nice question of yours though.

10-29-2009, 03:30 PM	#166 (permalink)
Il cavaliere inesistente Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 196	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 I jest, but as a watercolor painter, do you consider tone important? More of a colourist in the footsteps of Signac Never been an issue at MCC. He gives trouble everywhere else. Perhaps he could be made to stay at his homeground. Agreed. There are a couple of other considerations. 1) The tournament is a round robin 2) Flude was an extremely late entrant 3) Player numbers for the event were poor. 4) A player withdrawal would almost have wrecked the tournament In the standing of the tournament, yes of course. From a chessplaying perspective, no he wasn't. cheers, Flude only entered because he was asked to make up the numbers Thank you for this discussion I am sure we both have other things to do

10-29-2009, 06:54 PM	#167 (permalink)
flavid dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 329	was I disadvantaged. In the standing of the tournament, yes of course. From a chessplaying perspective, no he wasn't. cheers, I travelled half way across Melbourne, had to wait for a long period, completely wasted a day. That is no disadvantage. Oh and by the way I was the travelling emergency in case anyone withdrew at the last moment who at nine o'clock on the day agreed to pick up another player so as the tournament would not collapse. I have not made any criticism of the appeals committee.

10-29-2009, 07:22 PM	#168 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by flavid dude I travelled half way across Melbourne, had to wait for a long period, completely wasted a day. That is no disadvantage. Oh and by the way I was the travelling emergency in case anyone withdrew at the last moment who at nine o'clock on the day agreed to pick up another player so as the tournament would not collapse. In other words, if I am reading this correctly, you would have preferred to win on forfeit and not have played the replayed game. Thats a fair enough decision if you want to gain points in the tournament. But, from a chess playing perspective, don't you enter tournaments to play chess games? It is pretty clear that the organisers cannot make up their minds about whether the reserves are a serious tournament or a mickey mouse club event. Originally Posted by flavid dude I have not made any criticism of the appeals committee. Well this is a matter of personal taste. Personally I would have withdrawn from the tournament if I had been asked to accept a decision that I could not stomach. cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

10-29-2009, 08:04 PM	#169 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 In other words, if I am reading this correctly, you would have preferred to win on forfeit and not have played the replayed game. Thats a fair enough decision if you want to gain points in the tournament. But, from a chess playing perspective, don't you enter tournaments to play chess games? It is pretty clear that the organisers cannot make up their minds about whether the reserves are a serious tournament or a mickey mouse club event. Well this is a matter of personal taste. Personally I would have withdrawn from the tournament if I had been asked to accept a decision that I could not stomach. cheers, just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ? __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-29-2009, 08:15 PM	#170 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by Axiom just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ? I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion. cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

10-29-2009, 08:22 PM	#171 (permalink)
justaknight Suspended Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 282	Originally Posted by Axiom just to clarify fg- are you more concerned with the laws of a tournament chess game than you are with the laws of a chess game tournament ? Hey Ax, if you can just drop in and enjoy the atmosphere this tournament generates. Despite some hype about David and Nikola and Fludey and Roger, it's as friendly as! Dave is happy, looks like he is having a great time, we talked about his kids progress the other day, he is in fine form and I think his encounter with Mehmet will decide the Reserves event! Both tournaments are great and players give their all but fun is fun! I whinged a little to Gary just to hype myself up, didn't work! Gary is a great guy always smiling and being friendly to everyone. BTW Grant made a very welcome appearance at BHCC the other night, actually I think he is the only pres of any other club who gets in the car and visits around.

10-29-2009, 09:26 PM	#172 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by justaknight Hey Ax, if you can just drop in and enjoy the atmosphere this tournament generates. Despite some hype about David and Nikola and Fludey and Roger, it's as friendly as! Dave is happy, looks like he is having a great time, we talked about his kids progress the other day, he is in fine form and I think his encounter with Mehmet will decide the Reserves event! Both tournaments are great and players give their all but fun is fun! I whinged a little to Gary just to hype myself up, didn't work! Gary is a great guy always smiling and being friendly to everyone. BTW Grant made a very welcome appearance at BHCC the other night, actually I think he is the only pres of any other club who gets in the car and visits around. That may be all very well and good , but it's hardly tiger of the tundra or warrior on the edge of time stuff is it ? __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-29-2009, 09:29 PM	#173 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion. cheers, No , that's quite ok , i was simply alluding to perhaps some contradiction there , between rules and rules. __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-30-2009, 08:05 AM	#174 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 I have no strong opinion on either. I think people are shooting the messenger here. I am not responsible for the tournament rules, that is the jurisdiction of the organisers. I said that in my opinion, I believe that Flude and Beattie should have played their game. Others disagree, thats fine, I respect their right to their own opinion. cheers, What struck me about this appeal is the extraordinary number of non-relevant issues that were presented in the appeal document and subsequently in posts in cyber-space. Sympathy points should have little place in an appeal process. What is important is to look at the key issue and decide this on chess, rules, tournament conditions, and equity grounds. In this case fg7 has stood head and shoulders over other commentators with his good sense. (Probably because he has had an opportunity to hear Beattie's case <which is unfortunately imbedded in much ...>). It is a case of "if you have not read the appeal document then you are not aware of all the facts". In particular, the tipping fact. And, no, I was not on the Appeals Committee. Have a nice day MOZ* __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

10-30-2009, 04:45 PM	#175 (permalink)
justaknight Suspended Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 282	Originally Posted by Axiom That may be all very well and good , but it's hardly tiger of the tundra or warrior on the edge of time stuff is it ? Correct there Ax, but even tigers of the tundra and warriors on the edge of time deserve a bit of a break some time don't they? Well, even if not physically there yourself I am sure you will be aptly represented. You can't leave the run amok by himself!!!

10-30-2009, 04:57 PM	#176 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by MOZ >). ahem... __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-30-2009, 05:01 PM	#177 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Originally Posted by Axiom ahem... Am I to read this that you want me to check back through your old posts to see what position you have adopted on this? And, if you even been a proper reality analyst you will have reserved judgment until you had heard both sides of the trifecta? And then ... __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

10-30-2009, 05:02 PM	#178 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by justaknight Correct there Ax, but even tigers of the tundra and warriors on the edge of time deserve a bit of a break some time don't they? Well, even if not physically there yourself I am sure you will be aptly represented. You can't leave the run amok by himself!!! yep, fair enough . incidentally , you've reminded me of a great SCT delicacy- smoked goat meat and herbs wrapped in philo(sic) pastry served on a bed of dried fruit and nuts . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-30-2009, 05:11 PM	#179 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by MOZ Am I to read this that you want me to check back through your old posts to see what position you have adopted on this? And, if you even been a proper reality analyst you will have reserved judgment until you had heard both sides of the trifecta? And then ... i was simply pointing out a possible contradiction within fg's paradigm . ie. the seeming conflict between being a stickler for the letter of the law concerning a recent game of his , and the letter of the law when applied to another. this was simply an axiomatic observation , not intended to be taken as judgement of the matter at hand . __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

10-30-2009, 05:14 PM	#180 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Originally Posted by Axiom i was simply pointing out a possible contradiction within fg's paradigm . ie. the seeming conflict between being a stickler for the letter of the law concerning a recent game of his , and the letter of the law when applied to another. this was simply an axiomatic observation , not intended to be taken as judgement of the matter at hand . Ah. So I guessed wrong. Nice question of yours though. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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