Cheating in Internet Chess - OzChess

**Jaz** · 01-29-2009, 05:05 AM

I recently found a thread here, which was about someone cheating during a live chess tournament. Apparently one guy had used his toilet breaks too liberally and it was found to be suspicious by some. The long story short, he was found to be using a some kind of a hand held device in the toilet room (no, not that kind of device), it was a portable computer for calculating chess moves, in other words cheating.

Now if this thing gets to a live game, aren't things worse in the internet scene, where nobody is watching, how often you go to the toilets and what you do in there? I'm sure there are lots of programs available to make your chess life easier during an online game.

I have also seen some rated games posted here, and I have considered starting playing them, but I want to know how big is the cheating factor in online games (especially the rated ones) and what should I watch out for.

**Just2Good** · 01-29-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jaz

I recently found a thread here, which was about someone cheating during a live chess tournament. Apparently one guy had used his toilet breaks too liberally and it was found to be suspicious by some. The long story short, he was found to be using a some kind of a hand held device in the toilet room (no, not that kind of device), it was a portable computer for calculating chess moves, in other words cheating.

Now if this thing gets to a live game, aren't things worse in the internet scene, where nobody is watching, how often you go to the toilets and what you do in there? I'm sure there are lots of programs available to make your chess life easier during an online game.

I have also seen some rated games posted here, and I have considered starting playing them, but I want to know how big is the cheating factor in online games (especially the rated ones) and what should I watch out for.

Funny you should mention it.

Just yesterday on ICC I had to report a computer cheater who stole about 50 points off me. It eventually became obvious that clown was cheating because his tactics, even in very calm positions were just perfect, his piece placement was perfect, he was simply unbeatable.

I became suspicious after maybe my 3rd loss to him, and in game four was paying very close attention to his play. The clincher came when he put his queen on the perfect square to maintain his attack and defend at the same time.

**cume** · 01-29-2009, 11:31 PM

Smart. Reminds of the brilliant idea of coded coughing in Who wants to be a millionaire a few years ago. Seemed to work, but only for so long.

**Jaz** · 01-31-2009, 11:14 AM

Aren't there any kind of mechanisms in place to detect cheaters? I would find it very suspicious, if there was a relatively new player shooting up the rankings and winning too many games in a row. Then again I guess it doesn't matter so much since you don't play chess for money, but for better rating/fame instead. I mean it doesn't matter much if you have 1200 or 1600 points, but I guess things are a lot different at higher levels, where every point is counted for deciding if you measure up for the GM title. You will also probably be more attentive, playing at that level. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even tell if I played against a simulation or a real chess player.

**Just2Good** · 01-31-2009, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jaz

Aren't there any kind of mechanisms in place to detect cheaters?

There are a number of methods that can be used. Usually a speed trap method is employed to find cheaters. Because it takes time for a cheater to imput the move into a computer and then transfer the computer response move into their internet game, computer use is often suspected if a player is taking several seconds per move in a blitz game (3 or 5 minutes each), even on simple takebacks which should be instantaneous.

Add the above to very successful overall results, and usually you will find a computer cheat.

**Firegoat7** · 01-31-2009, 07:03 PM

AC says Howard Duggan is a cheater. If that is true then it says a lot....

**Noddy** · 07-04-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by cume

Smart. Reminds of the brilliant idea of coded coughing in Who wants to be a millionaire a few years ago. Seemed to work, but only for so long.

Yeah, but how many people have won who wants to be a millionaire? Its also kind of a dumb question because if you are a billionaire, why would you want to become a millionaire?

**Just2Good** · 07-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Noddy

Yeah, but how many people have won who wants to be a millionaire? Its also kind of a dumb question because if you are a billionaire, why would you want to become a millionaire?

Right, well, I suspect most people want to sit in the hot seat - but a good point nevertheless.

**darkhorschessers** · 07-05-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Right, well, I suspect most people want to sit in the hot seat - but a good point nevertheless.

Did you catch that cheat on ICC AO?

**Just2Good** · 07-05-2009, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by darkhorschessers

Did you catch that cheat on ICC AO?

No, thankfully its been a while since I have come across an ICC cheat.

**Noddy** · 07-06-2009, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

No, thankfully its been a while since I have come across an ICC cheat.

Do you usually report people you think are cheating?

**hobsonbay player** · 07-08-2009, 05:13 PM

l'am ICC memeber too ,over few years l've come across few cheats .

But overall skim of things that is small percentage in terms of how many

players you play . One thing l know is you get to know alot players on-line

that is another indicator if their cheating or not with their style ,l found .

ICC is probably one best on-line server going around it has build in

anti-cheating devices , like speedtrap as AO has pointed out .

lf l was new l would try free trial for 7 days and take from there !

from Dean hogg

**Just2Good** · 07-08-2009, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by hobsonbay player

l'am ICC memeber too ,over few years l've come across few cheats .

But overall skim of things that is small percentage in terms of how many

players you play . One thing l know is you get to know alot players on-line

that is another indicator if their cheating or not with their style ,l found .

ICC is probably one best on-line server going around it has build in

anti-cheating devices , like speedtrap as AO has pointed out .

lf l was new l would try free trial for 7 days and take from there !

from Dean Hogg

Good points Dean.

Another thing is that it can sometimes be difficult to tell if someone is cheating based on a single online blitz games, sometimes you need several games to 'see the patterns'.

**Axiom** · 07-08-2009, 07:24 PM

i feel very complimented when i have been accused of being a computer cheat !

**Jaydon** · 07-08-2009, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom

i feel very complimented when i have been accused of being a computer cheat !

lol Indeed! I've never had that honour personally..

01-29-2009, 05:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jaz Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 87	Cheating in Internet Chess I recently found a thread here, which was about someone cheating during a live chess tournament. Apparently one guy had used his toilet breaks too liberally and it was found to be suspicious by some. The long story short, he was found to be using a some kind of a hand held device in the toilet room (no, not that kind of device), it was a portable computer for calculating chess moves, in other words cheating. Now if this thing gets to a live game, aren't things worse in the internet scene, where nobody is watching, how often you go to the toilets and what you do in there? I'm sure there are lots of programs available to make your chess life easier during an online game. I have also seen some rated games posted here, and I have considered starting playing them, but I want to know how big is the cheating factor in online games (especially the rated ones) and what should I watch out for.

01-29-2009, 01:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Jaz I recently found a thread here, which was about someone cheating during a live chess tournament. Apparently one guy had used his toilet breaks too liberally and it was found to be suspicious by some. The long story short, he was found to be using a some kind of a hand held device in the toilet room (no, not that kind of device), it was a portable computer for calculating chess moves, in other words cheating. Now if this thing gets to a live game, aren't things worse in the internet scene, where nobody is watching, how often you go to the toilets and what you do in there? I'm sure there are lots of programs available to make your chess life easier during an online game. I have also seen some rated games posted here, and I have considered starting playing them, but I want to know how big is the cheating factor in online games (especially the rated ones) and what should I watch out for. Funny you should mention it. Just yesterday on ICC I had to report a computer cheater who stole about 50 points off me. It eventually became obvious that clown was cheating because his tactics, even in very calm positions were just perfect, his piece placement was perfect, he was simply unbeatable. I became suspicious after maybe my 3rd loss to him, and in game four was paying very close attention to his play. The clincher came when he put his queen on the perfect square to maintain his attack and defend at the same time. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-31-2009, 02:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Jaz Aren't there any kind of mechanisms in place to detect cheaters? There are a number of methods that can be used. Usually a speed trap method is employed to find cheaters. Because it takes time for a cheater to imput the move into a computer and then transfer the computer response move into their internet game, computer use is often suspected if a player is taking several seconds per move in a blitz game (3 or 5 minutes each), even on simple takebacks which should be instantaneous. Add the above to very successful overall results, and usually you will find a computer cheat. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-31-2009, 07:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	AC says Howard Duggan is a cheater. If that is true then it says a lot.... __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

07-04-2009, 06:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Noddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Toyland Posts: 255	Originally Posted by cume Smart. Reminds of the brilliant idea of coded coughing in Who wants to be a millionaire a few years ago. Seemed to work, but only for so long. Yeah, but how many people have won who wants to be a millionaire? Its also kind of a dumb question because if you are a billionaire, why would you want to become a millionaire? __________________ Make Way for Noddy.

01-29-2009, 11:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
cume Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New South Wales Posts: 94	Smart. Reminds of the brilliant idea of coded coughing in Who wants to be a millionaire a few years ago. Seemed to work, but only for so long.

01-31-2009, 11:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jaz Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 87	Aren't there any kind of mechanisms in place to detect cheaters? I would find it very suspicious, if there was a relatively new player shooting up the rankings and winning too many games in a row. Then again I guess it doesn't matter so much since you don't play chess for money, but for better rating/fame instead. I mean it doesn't matter much if you have 1200 or 1600 points, but I guess things are a lot different at higher levels, where every point is counted for deciding if you measure up for the GM title. You will also probably be more attentive, playing at that level. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even tell if I played against a simulation or a real chess player.

07-05-2009, 12:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Noddy Yeah, but how many people have won who wants to be a millionaire? Its also kind of a dumb question because if you are a billionaire, why would you want to become a millionaire? Right, well, I suspect most people want to sit in the hot seat - but a good point nevertheless. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-05-2009, 06:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
darkhorschessers Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 142	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Right, well, I suspect most people want to sit in the hot seat - but a good point nevertheless. Did you catch that cheat on ICC AO? __________________ Everyone knows cricket is the best sport/game/pastime in the world! Why the heck are we playing chess??!!

07-05-2009, 07:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by darkhorschessers Did you catch that cheat on ICC AO? No, thankfully its been a while since I have come across an ICC cheat. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-06-2009, 07:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
Noddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Toyland Posts: 255	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One No, thankfully its been a while since I have come across an ICC cheat. Do you usually report people you think are cheating? __________________ Make Way for Noddy.

07-08-2009, 05:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
hobsonbay player Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 179	cheaters l'am ICC memeber too ,over few years l've come across few cheats . But overall skim of things that is small percentage in terms of how many players you play . One thing l know is you get to know alot players on-line that is another indicator if their cheating or not with their style ,l found . ICC is probably one best on-line server going around it has build in anti-cheating devices , like speedtrap as AO has pointed out . lf l was new l would try free trial for 7 days and take from there ! from Dean hogg

07-08-2009, 07:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by hobsonbay player l'am ICC memeber too ,over few years l've come across few cheats . But overall skim of things that is small percentage in terms of how many players you play . One thing l know is you get to know alot players on-line that is another indicator if their cheating or not with their style ,l found . ICC is probably one best on-line server going around it has build in anti-cheating devices , like speedtrap as AO has pointed out . lf l was new l would try free trial for 7 days and take from there ! from Dean Hogg Good points Dean. Another thing is that it can sometimes be difficult to tell if someone is cheating based on a single online blitz games, sometimes you need several games to 'see the patterns'. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-08-2009, 07:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	i feel very complimented when i have been accused of being a computer cheat !

07-08-2009, 07:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,098 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Axiom i feel very complimented when i have been accused of being a computer cheat ! lol Indeed! I've never had that honour personally..

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