Computer Cheats - Page 2 - OzChess

**Chessic-Adventures** · 01-10-2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Chessexpress has reported that someone was caught using a computer at the Australian Open. That is disappointing but in a tournament where prize money is bigger than usual, I suppose its to be expected that some people will resort to this type of thing.

Sad to hear about this, but it would have been even worse if it had been an adult that was cheating.

**Simon** · 01-10-2009, 05:27 PM

Does anyone know if the ACF will be getting involved or would a ban have to come at the state level?

**Dulce** · 01-15-2009, 06:31 AM

So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro!

especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit.

**Jaydon** · 01-15-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dulce

So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro!

especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit.

Well if you've got to go you've got to go!
I don't think cheating is that big of a problem that you should become worried when an opponent goes to the bathroom, but I can certainly see why you'd be concerned.

**AzzX** · 01-17-2009, 10:56 AM

First offence should be an instant banning from the tournament and subsequent offences resulting in banning from all tournaments for a number of years.

Cheating in anything just makes you not want to be a part of the competition.

**Jaydon** · 01-17-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by AzzX

First offence should be an instant banning from the tournament and subsequent offences resulting in banning from all tournaments for a number of years.

Cheating in anything just makes you not want to be a part of the competition.

That sounds like a reasonable way to deal with it.

Yes, cheating in anything can also bring the sport a bad name. For example beacuse of all the dope cheats in cycling people seem to think everyone is a cheat and don't want to watch it because "they're probably all just cheats". Which is a very sad thing to happen to a sport and I doubt there will ever be another great sporting acheivement without someone accusing the sportsperson of cheating. Cheating is just plain unacceptable!

**Firegoat7** · 01-17-2009, 02:59 PM

Hi,

Fraud in my opinion. The matter should be handed over to the police. Clearly its an attempt to win money from an organised regulated competition, (thus defrauding legitimate honest players), using illegal means.

cheers,

**Just2Good** · 01-17-2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi,

Fraud in my opinion. The matter should be handed over to the police. Clearly its an attempt to win money from an organised regulated competition, (thus defrauding legitimate honest players), using illegal means.

cheers,

Strangly enough this is correct. In Qld there is an offence of obtaining a benefit through dishonesty. However, as the lad was sent home with his tail between his legs, and no prize money in his pocket, its hard to see where he obtained the benefit. In any event I think getting the police involved for cheating in a chess tournament is akin to using a hammer to swat a fly.

Best Regards,

AO

**Firegoat7** · 01-17-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

[font="Georgia"] In any event I think getting the police involved for cheating in a chess tournament is akin to using a hammer to swat a fly.

Seriously, the matter should be referred to the police. It is not simply a matter of an individual youth cheating. It really should be about being Australian chess presenting a professional image. Here we have one of Australia's premium events basically saying we will go soft on cheats.

These cheats are the same type of people who have destroyed the ability of competition chess to flourish on the internet. It is the key reason why Open International chess tournaments, with serious prizemoney are not held online (remember Jose). The message needs to be made quite clear CHEATING with computers is punishable by law.

Obviously, the police would probably not prosecute the kid. But at the very least, he would probably benefit from a stern talking to by the appropriate authorities. . And, if it was an adult committing the offence I would expect the police to become involved and charges to be laid. The whole incident is just another reminder of why Australian chess is a complete joke.

Remember some people have spent well over $2,000 to play chess in Sydney for two weeks. Imagine the uproar if they had suffered an upset loss to a cheater in the first round and missed out on prize money.

cheers,

P.S
Honestly, its not about punishing the offender. I am more upset that the ACF is an unprofessional joke! and don't get me started on its joke rating systems and tendering process' PROFESSIONAL.... not

**Simon** · 01-17-2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Seriously, the matter should be referred to the police. It is not simply a matter of an individual youth cheating. It really should be about being Australian chess presenting a professional image. Here we have one of Australia's premium events basically saying we will go soft on cheats.

These cheats are the same type of people who have destroyed the ability of competition chess to flourish on the internet. It is the key reason why Open International chess tournaments, with serious prizemoney are not held online (remember Jose). The message needs to be made quite clear CHEATING with computers is punishable by law.

Obviously, the police would probably not prosecute the kid. But at the very least, he would probably benefit from a stern talking to by the appropriate authorities. . And, if it was an adult committing the offence I would expect the police to become involved and charges to be laid. The whole incident is just another reminder of why Australian chess is a complete joke.

Remember some people have spent well over $2,000 to play chess in Sydney for two weeks. Imagine the uproar if they had suffered an upset loss to a cheater in the first round and missed out on prize money.

cheers,

P.S
Honestly, its not about punishing the offender. I am more upset that the ACF is an unprofessional joke! and don't get me started on its joke rating systems and tendering process' PROFESSIONAL.... not

Maybe it could be some good publicity for chess if charges are laid because that might get the attention of channel 9 or something and then it could become a today tonight story. Chess players love their 15 minutes of fame

**Just2Good** · 01-17-2009, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Maybe it could be some good publicity for chess if charges are laid because that might get the attention of channel 9 or something and then it could become a today tonight story. Chess players love their 15 minutes of fame

When it comes to chess any publicity is good publicity! Especially considering the ACF's lame duck efforts to generate any. Surprisingly in that regard, this 14 year old kid may have succeeded where Denis, Bill, and Kevin have utterly failed.

**Herbert** · 01-18-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

When it comes to chess any publicity is good publicity! Especially considering the ACF's lame duck efforts to generate any. Surprisingly in that regard, this 14 year old kid may have succeeded where Denis, Bill, and Kevin have utterly failed.

The only thing he succeeded in was getting kjicked out of a chess tournament for cheating. Really AO we don't need their sort in our game.

**Just2Good** · 01-18-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Herbert

The only thing he succeeded in was getting kjicked out of a chess tournament for cheating. Really AO we don't need their sort in our game.

I think you may be mistaking my position on the matter Herbert.

All I said was that he managed to get some publicity for chess. Certainly I do not condone the youngster's actions in cheating with a computer. Afterall, cheaters never prosper!

**superfly** · 01-18-2009, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dulce

So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro!

especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit.

Obviously you have no knowledge of what it is like for senior citizens or certain medical conditions.

**Simon** · 01-18-2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by superfly

Obviously you have no knowledge of what it is like for senior citizens or certain medical conditions.

Yeah I wouldn't want to be playing against someone who has an accident in their pants but refuses to go to the bathroom. That wouldn't be good for anyone!

View Poll Results: What should happen to people caught red handed using chess computers at tournaments?
They should be given a stern warning not to cheat again!	6	42.86%
They should be banned from playing any other tournaments for one or more years!	7	50.00%
They should be banned from playing forever!	0	0%
They should lose the game the cheated in but no other penalty!	1	7.14%
They should be expelled from the tournament they cheated in!	2	14.29%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

01-10-2009, 03:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 214	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Chessexpress has reported that someone was caught using a computer at the Australian Open. That is disappointing but in a tournament where prize money is bigger than usual, I suppose its to be expected that some people will resort to this type of thing. Sad to hear about this, but it would have been even worse if it had been an adult that was cheating.

01-15-2009, 10:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,098 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Dulce So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro! especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit. Well if you've got to go you've got to go! I don't think cheating is that big of a problem that you should become worried when an opponent goes to the bathroom, but I can certainly see why you'd be concerned.

01-17-2009, 10:56 AM	#20 (permalink)
AzzX Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 109	First offence should be an instant banning from the tournament and subsequent offences resulting in banning from all tournaments for a number of years. Cheating in anything just makes you not want to be a part of the competition. __________________ azzx.org ozsource

01-17-2009, 11:10 AM	#21 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,098 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by AzzX First offence should be an instant banning from the tournament and subsequent offences resulting in banning from all tournaments for a number of years. Cheating in anything just makes you not want to be a part of the competition. That sounds like a reasonable way to deal with it. Yes, cheating in anything can also bring the sport a bad name. For example beacuse of all the dope cheats in cycling people seem to think everyone is a cheat and don't want to watch it because "they're probably all just cheats". Which is a very sad thing to happen to a sport and I doubt there will ever be another great sporting acheivement without someone accusing the sportsperson of cheating. Cheating is just plain unacceptable!

01-10-2009, 05:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Does anyone know if the ACF will be getting involved or would a ban have to come at the state level?

01-15-2009, 06:31 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dulce Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 76	So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro! especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit.

01-17-2009, 02:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	Hi, Fraud in my opinion. The matter should be handed over to the police. Clearly its an attempt to win money from an organised regulated competition, (thus defrauding legitimate honest players), using illegal means. cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

01-17-2009, 04:09 PM	#23 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi, Fraud in my opinion. The matter should be handed over to the police. Clearly its an attempt to win money from an organised regulated competition, (thus defrauding legitimate honest players), using illegal means. cheers, Strangly enough this is correct. In Qld there is an offence of obtaining a benefit through dishonesty. However, as the lad was sent home with his tail between his legs, and no prize money in his pocket, its hard to see where he obtained the benefit. In any event I think getting the police involved for cheating in a chess tournament is akin to using a hammer to swat a fly. Best Regards, AO __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-17-2009, 05:29 PM	#24 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One [font="Georgia"] In any event I think getting the police involved for cheating in a chess tournament is akin to using a hammer to swat a fly. Seriously, the matter should be referred to the police. It is not simply a matter of an individual youth cheating. It really should be about being Australian chess presenting a professional image. Here we have one of Australia's premium events basically saying we will go soft on cheats. These cheats are the same type of people who have destroyed the ability of competition chess to flourish on the internet. It is the key reason why Open International chess tournaments, with serious prizemoney are not held online (remember Jose). The message needs to be made quite clear CHEATING with computers is punishable by law. Obviously, the police would probably not prosecute the kid. But at the very least, he would probably benefit from a stern talking to by the appropriate authorities. . And, if it was an adult committing the offence I would expect the police to become involved and charges to be laid. The whole incident is just another reminder of why Australian chess is a complete joke. Remember some people have spent well over $2,000 to play chess in Sydney for two weeks. Imagine the uproar if they had suffered an upset loss to a cheater in the first round and missed out on prize money. cheers, P.S Honestly, its not about punishing the offender. I am more upset that the ACF is an unprofessional joke! and don't get me started on its joke rating systems and tendering process' PROFESSIONAL.... not __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

01-17-2009, 05:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Seriously, the matter should be referred to the police. It is not simply a matter of an individual youth cheating. It really should be about being Australian chess presenting a professional image. Here we have one of Australia's premium events basically saying we will go soft on cheats. These cheats are the same type of people who have destroyed the ability of competition chess to flourish on the internet. It is the key reason why Open International chess tournaments, with serious prizemoney are not held online (remember Jose). The message needs to be made quite clear CHEATING with computers is punishable by law. Obviously, the police would probably not prosecute the kid. But at the very least, he would probably benefit from a stern talking to by the appropriate authorities. . And, if it was an adult committing the offence I would expect the police to become involved and charges to be laid. The whole incident is just another reminder of why Australian chess is a complete joke. Remember some people have spent well over $2,000 to play chess in Sydney for two weeks. Imagine the uproar if they had suffered an upset loss to a cheater in the first round and missed out on prize money. cheers, P.S Honestly, its not about punishing the offender. I am more upset that the ACF is an unprofessional joke! and don't get me started on its joke rating systems and tendering process' PROFESSIONAL.... not Maybe it could be some good publicity for chess if charges are laid because that might get the attention of channel 9 or something and then it could become a today tonight story. Chess players love their 15 minutes of fame

01-17-2009, 07:36 PM	#26 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Simon Maybe it could be some good publicity for chess if charges are laid because that might get the attention of channel 9 or something and then it could become a today tonight story. Chess players love their 15 minutes of fame When it comes to chess any publicity is good publicity! Especially considering the ACF's lame duck efforts to generate any. Surprisingly in that regard, this 14 year old kid may have succeeded where Denis, Bill, and Kevin have utterly failed. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-18-2009, 01:21 PM	#27 (permalink)
Herbert Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Geelong Posts: 58	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One When it comes to chess any publicity is good publicity! Especially considering the ACF's lame duck efforts to generate any. Surprisingly in that regard, this 14 year old kid may have succeeded where Denis, Bill, and Kevin have utterly failed. The only thing he succeeded in was getting kjicked out of a chess tournament for cheating. Really AO we don't need their sort in our game.

01-18-2009, 02:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Herbert The only thing he succeeded in was getting kjicked out of a chess tournament for cheating. Really AO we don't need their sort in our game. I think you may be mistaking my position on the matter Herbert. All I said was that he managed to get some publicity for chess. Certainly I do not condone the youngster's actions in cheating with a computer. Afterall, cheaters never prosper! __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-18-2009, 05:24 PM	#29 (permalink)
superfly Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 23	going to the toilet Originally Posted by Dulce So wait, you can really go into the bathroom during a tournament game? If my opponent did that i would immediately assume something was up. I mean, the games dont last THAT long, you can hold it bro! especially if it was more than once, that is grounds for a forfeit. Obviously you have no knowledge of what it is like for senior citizens or certain medical conditions.

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01-18-2009, 08:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Originally Posted by superfly Obviously you have no knowledge of what it is like for senior citizens or certain medical conditions. Yeah I wouldn't want to be playing against someone who has an accident in their pants but refuses to go to the bathroom. That wouldn't be good for anyone!