Short Draw Rule - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 11-17-2008, 01:22 PM

I absolutely could not believe what I read today from the Carrier Pigeon. I had to go to Chess Chat and check it out for myself to see if it was really true. It was! Sure enough, at CC they're latest target and aspiration is to disparage Canberra's Shaun Press and drag his good name through the mud.

I don't know if I'll go so far as to say I am disgusted by what I read, but it was certainly a shocking turn off reinforcing my view that Chess Chat is little more than a place to defame others. In short, Dennis Jessop's unflattering remarks towards one of Australia's greatest chess stalwarts were, in my view, totally unfair.

Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop

The whole problem with the short draws policy in the Doeberl Cup is that it is the brainchild of Shaun Press who is one of the arbiters and thereby gains added power to satisfy his ego. Poor Charles Bishop doesn't know a bee from a bull's foot in this regard and is in the thrall of Press, never something to be recommended as those who know Shaun's track record will attest.

Originally Posted by Garvin Gray

Sorry Denis, but this looks very suspicious to me. You have chosen to post this right when Shaun most likely will not see it, unless it is pointed out to him.

You have had at least a couple of weeks to reply and right when Shaun might miss it, you choose to reply.

Please explain why your reply should not be viewed with suspicion?

Originally Posted by Jono

It's complicated, but start here. In short, in the last round of last year's Doerbel, a draw would give two GMs a share of a high first prize, first outright is a bit better still, but a loss would mean at best a tie for a minor prize, so they played an opening with an early repetition to share first. The arbiter, assisted by two players who, when they were active had a lot of short draws themselves (one was especially notorious for it, the hypocrite), ordered one GM to vary. The other GM lost, meaning a huge loss of prize money, bad feelings on his part, and bad feelings by other players who thought it was appalling treatment. Telling a GM, or any player for that matter, that he may not play a legal move, is an atrocious overstepping of arbiterial powers.

Originally Posted by Dennis Jessop

Garvin

The answer is quite simple. I had completely overlooked the DC thread and this one until today. Anyway, Shaun is posting on his blog even though overseas and may well be reading CCF too. He hasn't posted on CCF (Chess Chat Forum) for ages (well over 12 months, nearer 2 years) because of a dummy spit so your point has little weight. Moreover, careful reading of my post will reveal that it is not really directed to Shaun. I'll give you a private tutorial on ACT chess politics if you really want to know what is, and is not, relevant. It's something that, as an ACF Councillor, you may need to know.

DJ

Originally Posted by Dennis Jessop

Garvin

If Shaun Press is your informant, as I suspect is the case as you spent a lot of time with him in Mt Buller and have not to my knowledge ever spoken to any other ACT chess person, especially me, don't ever be silly enough to think that his views represent anything vaguely approaching a dispassionate or balanced view of ACT chess. And don't forget that I was an ACTCA office bearer from 1997 to 2005 (Secretary but mostly President) as well as for many years in the 70s and early 80s while Shaun had no ACTCA involvement at all apart from arbiter at the Doeberl Cup. It's not his practice actually to do anything constructive in chess administration though I note that he occupies the onerous position of Secretary of the PNG Chess Federation according to their website.

DJ

I would like to turn particular attention to this remark made by Dennis:

He hasn't posted on CCF (Chess Chat Forum) for ages (well over 12 months, nearer 2 years) [highlight="yellow"]because of a dummy spit so your point has little weight.

Firstly, to say Shaun spit the dummy is disrespectful, unkind, and typical of the abuse which is often measured out so liberally at CC to those who do not post there. Indeed, OzChess was created to provide an alternate voice and sancuary to the CC abuses.

But my question is this, without having specifically asked Shaun, how can Dennis know that Shaun spit the dummy? I think it is pure speculation on Mr Jessop's part.

Secondly, am I mistaken or is there the suggestion that its okay to have a go at someone because they no longer post on Chess Chat? The timing of this 'attack', for lack of a better word, is most peculiar with Shaun playing at the Chess Olympiad and having a limited ability to defend himself.

Best Regards,

AO

**Simon** · 11-22-2008, 02:35 PM

When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated. I feel sorry for chess administrators who probably get blasted from some corner no matter which way they decide the interpretation of a rule.

**phild707** · 11-25-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

I absolutely could not believe what I read today from the Carrier Pigeon. I had to go to Chess Chat and check it out for myself to see if it was really true. It was! Sure enough, at CC they're latest target and aspiration is to disparage Canberra's Shaun Press and drag his good name through the mud.

I don't know if I'll go so far as to say I am disgusted by what I read, but it was certainly a shocking turn off reinforcing my view that Chess Chat is little more than a place to defame others. In short, Dennis Jessop's unflattering remarks towards one of Australia's greatest chess stalwarts were, in my view, totally unfair.

AO[/font]

I had a brief run in with Dennis Jessop when he joined in with the other misfits on Chesschat to put the boot in to me back in the days when that was one of the main pastimes in the swamp.
He is a person who seems incapable of treating others with respect.
I don't know who "poor Charles Bishop"is but whoever he is I am sure that deserves better treatment than that from Jessop, particularly if he is gives up his time on a voluntary basis for Chess.

Some people turn up to clubs with something to offer; others just turn up.
It's a shame that people in the former category are so often subject to spiteful attacks in the Australian Chess world.

**Chess-King** · 11-27-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by phild707

He is a person who seems incapable of treating others with respect.

Even a King is expected to treat his lowest subjects with respect and dignity!

**Jaydon** · 11-27-2008, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Chess-King

Even a King is expected to treat his lowest subjects with respect and dignity!

Really?! I was under a different impression. I obviously have alot to learn!

**Brad Carlston** · 11-30-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Simon Frederick

When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated.

Well said Simon, well said.

**Herbert** · 12-07-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Simon Frederick

When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated. I feel sorry for chess administrators who probably get blasted from some corner no matter which way they decide the interpretation of a rule.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. A lot of them are in it for the wrong reasons and some of them don't even have a very good understanding of the rules. I know that sounds whacky but it has been the case in my limited experience.

**Simon** · 12-17-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Herbert

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. A lot of them are in it for the wrong reasons and some of them don't even have a very good understanding of the rules. I know that sounds whacky but it has been the case in my limited experience.

Please discuss further. What experiences have you had that makes you think this?

**biochemgirl** · 12-18-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Please discuss further. What experiences have you had that makes you think this?

It is always important to remember that volunteers who give their time and energy to chess should not be criticised by those who only show up to play chess but give nothing else to the game.

**Firegoat7** · 11-11-2009, 11:09 PM

Hi,

I know this is an old thread, but did the arbiter force the players to vary from a repetition?

cheers,

**antichrist** · 12-20-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi,

I know this is an old thread, but did the arbiter force the players to vary from a repetition?

cheers,

sounds like my girl wanting a bit of variation otherwise no go and I am banned

**David William** · 12-15-2010, 11:59 PM

Both the players need to be mutually agree!!

**Axiom** · 12-16-2010, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by David William

Both the players need to be mutually agree!!

STEADY ON THERE DAVID !!!!
No need to get carried away !

**antichrist** · 12-17-2010, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by David William

Both the players need to be mutually agree!!

Is there any other kind of agreement, where only one agrees?

**Brian** · 01-01-2011, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Is there any other kind of agreement, where only one agrees?

Yes when the arbiter declares the game a draw and the players disagree

Appeals committees are useful for that purpose

11-17-2008, 01:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Short Draw Rule I absolutely could not believe what I read today from the Carrier Pigeon. I had to go to Chess Chat and check it out for myself to see if it was really true. It was! Sure enough, at CC they're latest target and aspiration is to disparage Canberra's Shaun Press and drag his good name through the mud. I don't know if I'll go so far as to say I am disgusted by what I read, but it was certainly a shocking turn off reinforcing my view that Chess Chat is little more than a place to defame others. In short, Dennis Jessop's unflattering remarks towards one of Australia's greatest chess stalwarts were, in my view, totally unfair. Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop The whole problem with the short draws policy in the Doeberl Cup is that it is the brainchild of Shaun Press who is one of the arbiters and thereby gains added power to satisfy his ego. Poor Charles Bishop doesn't know a bee from a bull's foot in this regard and is in the thrall of Press, never something to be recommended as those who know Shaun's track record will attest. Originally Posted by Garvin Gray Sorry Denis, but this looks very suspicious to me. You have chosen to post this right when Shaun most likely will not see it, unless it is pointed out to him. You have had at least a couple of weeks to reply and right when Shaun might miss it, you choose to reply. Please explain why your reply should not be viewed with suspicion? Originally Posted by Jono It's complicated, but start here. In short, in the last round of last year's Doerbel, a draw would give two GMs a share of a high first prize, first outright is a bit better still, but a loss would mean at best a tie for a minor prize, so they played an opening with an early repetition to share first. The arbiter, assisted by two players who, when they were active had a lot of short draws themselves (one was especially notorious for it, the hypocrite), ordered one GM to vary. The other GM lost, meaning a huge loss of prize money, bad feelings on his part, and bad feelings by other players who thought it was appalling treatment. Telling a GM, or any player for that matter, that he may not play a legal move, is an atrocious overstepping of arbiterial powers. Originally Posted by Dennis Jessop Garvin The answer is quite simple. I had completely overlooked the DC thread and this one until today. Anyway, Shaun is posting on his blog even though overseas and may well be reading CCF too. He hasn't posted on CCF (Chess Chat Forum) for ages (well over 12 months, nearer 2 years) because of a dummy spit so your point has little weight. Moreover, careful reading of my post will reveal that it is not really directed to Shaun. I'll give you a private tutorial on ACT chess politics if you really want to know what is, and is not, relevant. It's something that, as an ACF Councillor, you may need to know. DJ Originally Posted by Dennis Jessop Garvin If Shaun Press is your informant, as I suspect is the case as you spent a lot of time with him in Mt Buller and have not to my knowledge ever spoken to any other ACT chess person, especially me, don't ever be silly enough to think that his views represent anything vaguely approaching a dispassionate or balanced view of ACT chess. And don't forget that I was an ACTCA office bearer from 1997 to 2005 (Secretary but mostly President) as well as for many years in the 70s and early 80s while Shaun had no ACTCA involvement at all apart from arbiter at the Doeberl Cup. It's not his practice actually to do anything constructive in chess administration though I note that he occupies the onerous position of Secretary of the PNG Chess Federation according to their website. DJ I would like to turn particular attention to this remark made by Dennis: He hasn't posted on CCF (Chess Chat Forum) for ages (well over 12 months, nearer 2 years) [highlight="yellow"]because of a dummy spit so your point has little weight. Firstly, to say Shaun spit the dummy is disrespectful, unkind, and typical of the abuse which is often measured out so liberally at CC to those who do not post there. Indeed, OzChess was created to provide an alternate voice and sancuary to the CC abuses. But my question is this, without having specifically asked Shaun, how can Dennis know that Shaun spit the dummy? I think it is pure speculation on Mr Jessop's part. Secondly, am I mistaken or is there the suggestion that its okay to have a go at someone because they no longer post on Chess Chat? The timing of this 'attack', for lack of a better word, is most peculiar with Shaun playing at the Chess Olympiad and having a limited ability to defend himself. Best Regards, AO __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

11-25-2008, 03:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
phild707 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burnie International Airport Posts: 298	Hmmmm Originally Posted by Arrogant-One I absolutely could not believe what I read today from the Carrier Pigeon. I had to go to Chess Chat and check it out for myself to see if it was really true. It was! Sure enough, at CC they're latest target and aspiration is to disparage Canberra's Shaun Press and drag his good name through the mud. I don't know if I'll go so far as to say I am disgusted by what I read, but it was certainly a shocking turn off reinforcing my view that Chess Chat is little more than a place to defame others. In short, Dennis Jessop's unflattering remarks towards one of Australia's greatest chess stalwarts were, in my view, totally unfair. AO[/font] I had a brief run in with Dennis Jessop when he joined in with the other misfits on Chesschat to put the boot in to me back in the days when that was one of the main pastimes in the swamp. He is a person who seems incapable of treating others with respect. I don't know who "poor Charles Bishop"is but whoever he is I am sure that deserves better treatment than that from Jessop, particularly if he is gives up his time on a voluntary basis for Chess. Some people turn up to clubs with something to offer; others just turn up. It's a shame that people in the former category are so often subject to spiteful attacks in the Australian Chess world. __________________ "It ain't no sin if you crack a few laws now and then, just so long as you don't break any." Mae West

11-27-2008, 01:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chess-King Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	Originally Posted by phild707 He is a person who seems incapable of treating others with respect. Even a King is expected to treat his lowest subjects with respect and dignity!

11-27-2008, 01:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Chess-King Even a King is expected to treat his lowest subjects with respect and dignity! Really?! I was under a different impression. I obviously have alot to learn!

11-30-2008, 04:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Brad Carlston Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 27	Originally Posted by Simon Frederick When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated. Well said Simon, well said.

11-22-2008, 02:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 182	When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated. I feel sorry for chess administrators who probably get blasted from some corner no matter which way they decide the interpretation of a rule.

12-07-2008, 05:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Herbert Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Geelong Posts: 58	Originally Posted by Simon Frederick When chess is involved, sometimes passions can become heated. I feel sorry for chess administrators who probably get blasted from some corner no matter which way they decide the interpretation of a rule. I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. A lot of them are in it for the wrong reasons and some of them don't even have a very good understanding of the rules. I know that sounds whacky but it has been the case in my limited experience.

12-17-2008, 04:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 182	Originally Posted by Herbert I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. A lot of them are in it for the wrong reasons and some of them don't even have a very good understanding of the rules. I know that sounds whacky but it has been the case in my limited experience. Please discuss further. What experiences have you had that makes you think this?

12-18-2008, 05:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
biochemgirl Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 9	Originally Posted by Simon Please discuss further. What experiences have you had that makes you think this? It is always important to remember that volunteers who give their time and energy to chess should not be criticised by those who only show up to play chess but give nothing else to the game.

11-11-2009, 11:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Hi, I know this is an old thread, but did the arbiter force the players to vary from a repetition? cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

12-20-2009, 10:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi, I know this is an old thread, but did the arbiter force the players to vary from a repetition? cheers, sounds like my girl wanting a bit of variation otherwise no go and I am banned

12-15-2010, 11:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
David William Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 9	Both the players need to be mutually agree!!

12-16-2010, 12:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Axiom Reality Analyst Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,498	Woah , Go Easy ! Originally Posted by David William Both the players need to be mutually agree!! STEADY ON THERE DAVID !!!! No need to get carried away ! __________________ "Sometimes the obligation of the intelligent is to restate the obvious. None more important than emphatically stating that there is a : ' Naked Emperor Elephant in the Room' " Axiom

12-17-2010, 03:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by David William Both the players need to be mutually agree!! Is there any other kind of agreement, where only one agrees?

01-01-2011, 01:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
Brian Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 149	Originally Posted by antichrist Is there any other kind of agreement, where only one agrees? Yes when the arbiter declares the game a draw and the players disagree Appeals committees are useful for that purpose

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