Players Giving False Names & Misrepresenting Their Playing Stength - OzChess

**SHump** · 03-02-2011, 09:23 AM

I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. The evidence include their photos as winners and also during the event, and one email address that seems to include parts of their real name, and an email from someone who recognised them. One of them is a FIDE titled player at the highest level.

The tournament 'damage' was not too great (I am sure the people that played them learnt a thing or two) and the financial impact was slight (entry fees for them totalled $25, the prize money they won combined to $55).

As they registered on the morning of the event (as allowed for) then they could have called themselves whatever and I would have had no way of verifying their playing strength (no internet on site).

However, this is (chess) fraud, and so I wanted to bring this to the attention of the chess community.

In future I will ask for some id before registering a player I do not know, and especially for those turning up on the day.

I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience:

try to gather more evidence?
name and shame (leaves me open to some libel action however)?
notify FIDE? (if so, how/who?)
is there an avenue to report names/photos of suspected chess sharks?? (they may hit Aus next!)
report them to immigration (they were overseas players)?

It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!). But there you have it. Is this just a scratch on the surface of other frauds being done?!?

I looked through all the posts on this thread and no-one seems to have discussed this before...

**antichrist** · 03-02-2011, 05:04 PM

with my rating I would be more inclined to do the opposite to get on board one for a change, and as would be playing a mid fielder I may even win and be co leader - never leave a stone unturned

**Just2Good** · 03-02-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by SHump

I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200.

I have a perfectly reasonable explanation. When you asked for my FIDE rating, I thought you meant my FIDE rating when I first started playing chess.

It was an honest mistake!

Originally Posted by SHump

It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!)

I know a certain untitled Tasmanian who admitted to accepting free rides to get free meals, so nothing would surprise me anymore.

**SHump** · 03-02-2011, 09:24 PM

OK, its show and tell time. It turns out the couple are Father and Daughter and have used their real names at another location in NZ, and previous posters are well on the right path. They are Lara Stock (CRO) and Michael Stock (GER). She is a WGM and her federation is Croatia, he is rated over 2200 and belongs to the German Federation.. their photos are attached for those needing to eyeball any new registrants.

I am waiting for an email reply from them for an explanation. Note that, when they registered on the morning of the competition, I asked them if they had a rating, any rating. They replied that no they didn't. And during the event I asked Lara had she entered any tournaments before, and she said she played in some local gatherings, but the sense to me was that it was nothing very organised.

We do want to welcome chess tourists to our events, but everyone should expect honesty and integrity to prevail. We run these events in good faith, and especially in the case of a Rookies event we do not expect chess sharks to spoil the event for the honest majority. It is not about the money.

Meanwhile, please read the "Female GM wins Rookies Shield" post on the club site.

Or here is a sneek preview:
------------
At great expense to the Hamilton Chess Club management, two strong chess players were secretly imported from Europe to test the resolve and current skill level of the Waikato juniors and beginners on 20th Feb. Lara Stock (wgm) and her father Michael Stock (2200+) cleverly kept their relationship, ages - she was over 18 - and identities secret (by using false names) and both convincingly blitzed the field of up and coming but unsuspecting budding chess enthusiasts. We all enjoyed the lessons learned - both on and off the chess board, of honesty and integrity or what happens when there is a lack of it. Stay tuned for the next secret mission of the management - we may be able to exhume Bobby Fischer yet! Some pics of our undercover chess players are below.

------------

**Iconoclast** · 03-02-2011, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by SHump

I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience:

1. Contact Garry Bekker or Shaun Press. They would know to method of reporting to FIDE.
2. Report it to FIDE.
3. Have a lawyer draft a letter demand for return of monies..
4. Following proof of identity, name them in all relevant publications.

These players are thieves. It is important that chess communities in all countries to know who is in their midst.

Remember that your personal reputation and your club will be negatively effected if the thieves are not pursued. Always try to do what is right and have no regrets.

Good luck !

**antichrist** · 03-02-2011, 10:12 PM

but if they would won anyway what is the difference? if they beat the top players the money is in the bag even if they are registered as Santa or Boy George. In the Sydney Easter Cup we had a Chinese unknown come and wipe the field, we gave him unrated status, but as he had defeated the 5 top players nobody complained.

The dad probably just wanted to protect his beautiful innocent daughter from all the undesirable chess players - fair enuf

**Jaydon** · 03-03-2011, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

but if they would won anyway what is the difference?

It was an u/1700 tournament and they were not under 1700

**Lekko** · 03-03-2011, 01:48 AM

Lol Those Were The Germans From Mcc Who Tried To Get Placed In The U1800 whom Grant threw out!

**Firegoat7** · 03-03-2011, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Heartbreak Kid

Lol Those Were The Germans From Mcc Who Tried To Get Placed In The U1800 whom Grant threw out!

Classic! yeah I thought this might be the case. Wasn't the guy claiming he was a millionaire? And didn't Grant cop a lot of flack over this? Seems like there is more going on here the people suspect. I mean why try to enter MCC allegros and claim you are unrated when you clearly seem to have enough money to travel to Australia and New Zealand playing chess? They cannot seriously be doing it for the money, so they must be just wanting to play chess anonymously on a holiday.

**Grant Szuveges** · 03-03-2011, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Classic! yeah I thought this might be the case. Wasn't the guy claiming he was a millionaire? And didn't Grant cop a lot of flack over this? Seems like there is more going on here the people suspect. I mean why try to enter MCC allegros and claim you are unrated when you clearly seem to have enough money to travel to Australia and New Zealand playing chess? They cannot seriously be doing it for the money, so they must be just wanting to play chess anonymously on a holiday.

I wouldnt say that I copped "a lot of flack" over it. I actually had overwhelming support from the people who were there on the day. I also received a lot of positive facebook mail about the whole thing too.

As far as Im aware, there were only 2 people who criticised me (to my face anyway) and neither of them were actually there on the day anyway.

One was one of those do-gooder type characters who would probably say that a burgler should be allowed to sue you if he breaks his leg whilst robbing your house.

The other was simply someone who wants to get the daughter into bed when he gets back to Europe...

**antichrist** · 03-03-2011, 06:09 AM

reminds me of that type of lady who would blame some other guy's baby on whoever came along - DNA testing has outed about 600 cases so far, four years ago the law was changed so that the daddy come lately could claim the money back

**SHump** · 03-03-2011, 07:16 AM

Oh I am also thinking this practice is useful (as seen at Doeberl etc, not that events I run are in that league just yet

)
Based on this:

As an aside it is interesting to look at normal practice for grade type prizes and rating cut-offs in the US and Europe. Generally if you don’t have a hard and fast rating you will not get a grade prize. Even FIDE ratings or estimates by club officials are not accepted in many places – actual local, national rating or no prize. They will sometimes let the players take part if their ‘unofficial’ rating suggests that they are in the category, but they are not eligible for rating based prizes.

I don't mind introducing a new prize category in our next event (best unrated player) - that should slow down some types perhaps.

AND some breaking news - my post about the couple has been picked up here . They may be off to the Philippines next - pinoys beware!

**SHump** · 03-03-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

I have a perfectly reasonable explanation. When you asked for my FIDE rating, I thought you meant my FIDE rating when I first started playing chess.

It was an honest mistake!

it looks to me that her first FIDE rating was 2078

**Lekko** · 03-03-2011, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by SHump

it looks to me that her first FIDE rating was 2078

LOL well that's certainly not the case then

They're clearly doing it for the money based on their reaction to Grant's trying to put them into rating groups, however I don't see how they could be benefiting from it unless they're participating in a shiteload of tournaments.

**antichrist** · 03-03-2011, 10:09 PM

If Jesus had given a false name he may still be alive today

03-02-2011, 09:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
SHump Hamilton Chess, NZ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton, Waikato, New Zealand Posts: 216	Players Giving False Names & Misrepresenting Their Playing Stength I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. The evidence include their photos as winners and also during the event, and one email address that seems to include parts of their real name, and an email from someone who recognised them. One of them is a FIDE titled player at the highest level. The tournament 'damage' was not too great (I am sure the people that played them learnt a thing or two) and the financial impact was slight (entry fees for them totalled $25, the prize money they won combined to $55). As they registered on the morning of the event (as allowed for) then they could have called themselves whatever and I would have had no way of verifying their playing strength (no internet on site). However, this is (chess) fraud, and so I wanted to bring this to the attention of the chess community. In future I will ask for some id before registering a player I do not know, and especially for those turning up on the day. I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience: try to gather more evidence? name and shame (leaves me open to some libel action however)? notify FIDE? (if so, how/who?) is there an avenue to report names/photos of suspected chess sharks?? (they may hit Aus next!) report them to immigration (they were overseas players)? It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!). But there you have it. Is this just a scratch on the surface of other frauds being done?!? I looked through all the posts on this thread and no-one seems to have discussed this before... __________________ Scott.. Hamilton Chess club (http://hamiltonchess.net/) secretary and chess enthusiast!

03-02-2011, 07:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Ooops, Sorry. Originally Posted by SHump I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. I have a perfectly reasonable explanation. When you asked for my FIDE rating, I thought you meant my FIDE rating when I first started playing chess. It was an honest mistake! Originally Posted by SHump It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!) I know a certain untitled Tasmanian who admitted to accepting free rides to get free meals, so nothing would surprise me anymore. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

03-02-2011, 09:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by SHump I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience: 1. Contact Garry Bekker or Shaun Press. They would know to method of reporting to FIDE. 2. Report it to FIDE. 3. Have a lawyer draft a letter demand for return of monies.. 4. Following proof of identity, name them in all relevant publications. These players are thieves. It is important that chess communities in all countries to know who is in their midst. Remember that your personal reputation and your club will be negatively effected if the thieves are not pursued. Always try to do what is right and have no regrets. Good luck ! __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

03-03-2011, 01:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by antichrist but if they would won anyway what is the difference? It was an u/1700 tournament and they were not under 1700

03-03-2011, 01:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lekko HBK Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,359 ICC Handle: Heartbreak-Kid FICS Handle: HeartBreakingKid	Lol Those Were The Germans From Mcc Who Tried To Get Placed In The U1800 whom Grant threw out! __________________ Originally Posted by Iconoclast Girls attract boys. more girls playing chess = many more boys playing chess

03-02-2011, 05:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	with my rating I would be more inclined to do the opposite to get on board one for a change, and as would be playing a mid fielder I may even win and be co leader - never leave a stone unturned

03-02-2011, 10:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	but if they would won anyway what is the difference? if they beat the top players the money is in the bag even if they are registered as Santa or Boy George. In the Sydney Easter Cup we had a Chinese unknown come and wipe the field, we gave him unrated status, but as he had defeated the 5 top players nobody complained. The dad probably just wanted to protect his beautiful innocent daughter from all the undesirable chess players - fair enuf

03-03-2011, 02:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by Heartbreak Kid Lol Those Were The Germans From Mcc Who Tried To Get Placed In The U1800 whom Grant threw out! Classic! yeah I thought this might be the case. Wasn't the guy claiming he was a millionaire? And didn't Grant cop a lot of flack over this? Seems like there is more going on here the people suspect. I mean why try to enter MCC allegros and claim you are unrated when you clearly seem to have enough money to travel to Australia and New Zealand playing chess? They cannot seriously be doing it for the money, so they must be just wanting to play chess anonymously on a holiday. __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

03-03-2011, 04:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
Grant Szuveges Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,003	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Classic! yeah I thought this might be the case. Wasn't the guy claiming he was a millionaire? And didn't Grant cop a lot of flack over this? Seems like there is more going on here the people suspect. I mean why try to enter MCC allegros and claim you are unrated when you clearly seem to have enough money to travel to Australia and New Zealand playing chess? They cannot seriously be doing it for the money, so they must be just wanting to play chess anonymously on a holiday. I wouldnt say that I copped "a lot of flack" over it. I actually had overwhelming support from the people who were there on the day. I also received a lot of positive facebook mail about the whole thing too. As far as Im aware, there were only 2 people who criticised me (to my face anyway) and neither of them were actually there on the day anyway. One was one of those do-gooder type characters who would probably say that a burgler should be allowed to sue you if he breaks his leg whilst robbing your house. The other was simply someone who wants to get the daughter into bed when he gets back to Europe... __________________ People who have nothing to hide post using their real names...

03-03-2011, 06:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	reminds me of that type of lady who would blame some other guy's baby on whoever came along - DNA testing has outed about 600 cases so far, four years ago the law was changed so that the daddy come lately could claim the money back

03-03-2011, 07:16 AM	#12 (permalink)
SHump Hamilton Chess, NZ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton, Waikato, New Zealand Posts: 216	no rating, no big prize... Oh I am also thinking this practice is useful (as seen at Doeberl etc, not that events I run are in that league just yet ) Based on this: As an aside it is interesting to look at normal practice for grade type prizes and rating cut-offs in the US and Europe. Generally if you don’t have a hard and fast rating you will not get a grade prize. Even FIDE ratings or estimates by club officials are not accepted in many places – actual local, national rating or no prize. They will sometimes let the players take part if their ‘unofficial’ rating suggests that they are in the category, but they are not eligible for rating based prizes. I don't mind introducing a new prize category in our next event (best unrated player) - that should slow down some types perhaps. AND some breaking news - my post about the couple has been picked up here . They may be off to the Philippines next - pinoys beware! __________________ Scott.. Hamilton Chess club (http://hamiltonchess.net/) secretary and chess enthusiast! Last edited by SHump : 03-03-2011 at 08:39 AM

03-03-2011, 02:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
SHump Hamilton Chess, NZ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton, Waikato, New Zealand Posts: 216	Originally Posted by Just2Good I have a perfectly reasonable explanation. When you asked for my FIDE rating, I thought you meant my FIDE rating when I first started playing chess. It was an honest mistake! it looks to me that her first FIDE rating was 2078 __________________ Scott.. Hamilton Chess club (http://hamiltonchess.net/) secretary and chess enthusiast!

03-03-2011, 04:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lekko HBK Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,359 ICC Handle: Heartbreak-Kid FICS Handle: HeartBreakingKid	Originally Posted by SHump it looks to me that her first FIDE rating was 2078 LOL well that's certainly not the case then They're clearly doing it for the money based on their reaction to Grant's trying to put them into rating groups, however I don't see how they could be benefiting from it unless they're participating in a shiteload of tournaments. __________________ Originally Posted by Iconoclast Girls attract boys. more girls playing chess = many more boys playing chess

03-03-2011, 10:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	If Jesus had given a false name he may still be alive today

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.ozchess.com.au/chess-rules-regulations/2060-players-giving-false-names-misrepresenting-their-playing-stength.html
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