Should Arbiters Be Paid With Tips? - Page 2 - OzChess

**Pablito15** · 07-07-2010, 02:54 PM

heh heh heh... They arise, oh how they arise. I agree with you, how on earth can any problems arise in a chess game!? You make a move, write it down, then press the clock.

Unfortunately the arbiter is needed to sort out occasionally unsporting behaviour like intimidating an opponent, but in general he's there to sort out the pairings for the next round and things like that.

**Ehm TO** · 07-07-2010, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Pablito15

heh heh heh... They arise, oh how they arise. I agree with you, how on earth can any problems arise in a chess game!? You make a move, write it down, then press the clock.

Unfortunately the arbiter is needed to sort out occasionally unsporting behaviour like intimidating an opponent, but in general he's there to sort out the pairings for the next round and things like that.

Wow, never thought stuff like that would happen in chess. I apologize for the ignorance.

**Just2Good** · 07-07-2010, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by jdsingle

Wow, never thought stuff like that would happen in chess. I apologize for the ignorance.

Oh yes.

In fact in North America just a few years ago, one International Master came to a game drunk, and then in the middle of the game started urinating over the chess board. To my knowledge, that incident took the cake for unsportsman like conduct in chess.

**JaK** · 07-07-2010, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Oh yes.

In fact in North America just a few years ago, one International Master came to a game drunk, and then in the middle of the game started urinating over the chess board. To my knowledge, that incident took the cake for unsportsman like conduct in chess.

In fact that has never happened! Maybe you are confusing this

DAWN.COM | Sport | Drunk chess player concedes match after dozing off

when a player was actually drunk but he was not able to continue due to his condition (he was a Frenchman and not an American by the way) ...

and the unstabstantiated rumours that wanted the great Dr Alekhine being so drunk that he urinated on stage during his (1st) World Championship match vs Dr Euwe. Here is what Dr Euwe had to say about his great opponent tendency to be intoxicated...

Originally Posted by Dr Euwe

I don't think he was drinking more then than he usually did. Of course he could drink as much as he wanted: at his hotel it was all free. The owner of the Carlton Hotel, where he stayed, was a member of the Euwe Committee, but it was a natural courtesy to the illustrious guest that he should not be asked to pay for his drinks. I think it helps to drink a little, but not in the long run. I regretted not having drunk at all during the second match with Alekhine. Actually, Alekhine's walk was not steady because he did not see well but did not like to wear glasses. So many people thought he was drunk because of the way he walked.

The above was from an interview Dr Euwe gave to another great (Pal Benko) quoted in many sources including

ChessBase.com - Chess News - Edward Winter's Chess Explorations (37)

**Just2Good** · 07-07-2010, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

In fact that has never happened!

I'm pretty sure it did happen. It was widely reported in Canadian chess circles, and the IM in question was Michael S.

**JaK** · 07-07-2010, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

I'm pretty sure it did happen. It was widely reported in Canadian chess circles, and the IM in question was Michael S.

The IM you are referring to, if it's the same IM by the same name and surname initial who died last year, had exhibited a few unusual behavioural patterns but urinating on tables wasn't one of them. The other player whom I can recall (also dead by now) had personal problems, drunk a lot, smoked in tournament venues and had an also unstabstatiated urine - related incident but not while drunk when it allegedly happened.

**Just2Good** · 07-07-2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

The IM you are referring to, if it's the same IM by the same name and surname initial who died last year, had exhibited a few unusual behavioural patterns but urinating on tables wasn't one of them. The other player whom I can recall (also dead by now) had personal problems, drunk a lot, smoked in tournament venues and had a urine - related incident but not while drunk when it happened.

I see.

These drunken IM's - what shall we do with them?

**JaK** · 07-07-2010, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

I see.

These drunken IM's - what shall we do with them?

ban them?

**Just2Good** · 07-07-2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by JaK

ban them?

No, I don't like that approach. Reminds me too much of Kevin and Bill. There is a better way.

**Iconoclast** · 07-07-2010, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by jdsingle

Question out of pure ignorance. ... I just don't understand how often disputes can arise in chess.

I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides.

Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd.

**Iconoclast** · 07-07-2010, 11:43 PM

This story is a pisser

The Open Fly Gambit

**Just2Good** · 07-08-2010, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides.

Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd.

He's cool, I know him and can atest to that.

**Ehm TO** · 07-09-2010, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides.

Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd.

My question is out of pure ignorance. Haven't played chess in quite a while, but it never seemed like a game that would necessitate the need of an arbiter. Seems like chess is pretty matter of fact

**Iconoclast** · 07-09-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by jdsingle

Seems like chess is pretty matter of fact

Not all facts are known by all players. Scatter in some non-facts, some ambiguous "facts," and some deliberate misinterpretations of a fact, and you need a referee.

**antichrist** · 07-09-2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Not all facts are known by all players. Scatter in some non-facts, some ambiguous "facts," and some deliberate misinterpretations of a fact, and you need a referee.

throw in some knocked over pieces, pieces deliberately left off the board, pawn promotions captured with imaginary pieces, pieces placed back at random - you name it. All with moves not being recorded. I have seen it.

Also seen 2 kings checking each other for a few moves.

07-07-2010, 02:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Pablito15 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 618	heh heh heh... They arise, oh how they arise. I agree with you, how on earth can any problems arise in a chess game!? You make a move, write it down, then press the clock. Unfortunately the arbiter is needed to sort out occasionally unsporting behaviour like intimidating an opponent, but in general he's there to sort out the pairings for the next round and things like that. __________________ My Blog!

07-07-2010, 03:08 PM	#17 (permalink)
Ehm TO Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 314	Originally Posted by Pablito15 heh heh heh... They arise, oh how they arise. I agree with you, how on earth can any problems arise in a chess game!? You make a move, write it down, then press the clock. Unfortunately the arbiter is needed to sort out occasionally unsporting behaviour like intimidating an opponent, but in general he's there to sort out the pairings for the next round and things like that. Wow, never thought stuff like that would happen in chess. I apologize for the ignorance.

07-07-2010, 06:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by jdsingle Wow, never thought stuff like that would happen in chess. I apologize for the ignorance. Oh yes. In fact in North America just a few years ago, one International Master came to a game drunk, and then in the middle of the game started urinating over the chess board. To my knowledge, that incident took the cake for unsportsman like conduct in chess. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-07-2010, 08:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by Just2Good Oh yes. In fact in North America just a few years ago, one International Master came to a game drunk, and then in the middle of the game started urinating over the chess board. To my knowledge, that incident took the cake for unsportsman like conduct in chess. In fact that has never happened! Maybe you are confusing this DAWN.COM \| Sport \| Drunk chess player concedes match after dozing off when a player was actually drunk but he was not able to continue due to his condition (he was a Frenchman and not an American by the way) ... and the unstabstantiated rumours that wanted the great Dr Alekhine being so drunk that he urinated on stage during his (1st) World Championship match vs Dr Euwe. Here is what Dr Euwe had to say about his great opponent tendency to be intoxicated... Originally Posted by Dr Euwe I don't think he was drinking more then than he usually did. Of course he could drink as much as he wanted: at his hotel it was all free. The owner of the Carlton Hotel, where he stayed, was a member of the Euwe Committee, but it was a natural courtesy to the illustrious guest that he should not be asked to pay for his drinks. I think it helps to drink a little, but not in the long run. I regretted not having drunk at all during the second match with Alekhine. Actually, Alekhine's walk was not steady because he did not see well but did not like to wear glasses. So many people thought he was drunk because of the way he walked. The above was from an interview Dr Euwe gave to another great (Pal Benko) quoted in many sources including ChessBase.com - Chess News - Edward Winter's Chess Explorations (37)

07-07-2010, 10:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by JaK In fact that has never happened! I'm pretty sure it did happen. It was widely reported in Canadian chess circles, and the IM in question was Michael S. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-07-2010, 10:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by Just2Good I'm pretty sure it did happen. It was widely reported in Canadian chess circles, and the IM in question was Michael S. The IM you are referring to, if it's the same IM by the same name and surname initial who died last year, had exhibited a few unusual behavioural patterns but urinating on tables wasn't one of them. The other player whom I can recall (also dead by now) had personal problems, drunk a lot, smoked in tournament venues and had an also unstabstatiated urine - related incident but not while drunk when it allegedly happened.

07-07-2010, 10:45 PM	#22 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by JaK The IM you are referring to, if it's the same IM by the same name and surname initial who died last year, had exhibited a few unusual behavioural patterns but urinating on tables wasn't one of them. The other player whom I can recall (also dead by now) had personal problems, drunk a lot, smoked in tournament venues and had a urine - related incident but not while drunk when it happened. I see. These drunken IM's - what shall we do with them? __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-07-2010, 10:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
JaK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by Just2Good I see. These drunken IM's - what shall we do with them? ban them?

07-07-2010, 11:18 PM	#24 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by JaK ban them? No, I don't like that approach. Reminds me too much of Kevin and Bill. There is a better way. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-07-2010, 11:38 PM	#25 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by jdsingle Question out of pure ignorance. ... I just don't understand how often disputes can arise in chess. I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides. Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-07-2010, 11:43 PM	#26 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	This story is a pisser The Open Fly Gambit __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-08-2010, 12:17 AM	#27 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides. Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd. He's cool, I know him and can atest to that. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

07-09-2010, 02:02 PM	#28 (permalink)
Ehm TO Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 314	Originally Posted by Iconoclast I am very suspicious of what is going with this poster. This post appears to be a deliberate attempt to raise doubts about jd's own bona fides. Can someone with the time trace net addresses sus out jd. My question is out of pure ignorance. Haven't played chess in quite a while, but it never seemed like a game that would necessitate the need of an arbiter. Seems like chess is pretty matter of fact

07-09-2010, 02:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by jdsingle Seems like chess is pretty matter of fact Not all facts are known by all players. Scatter in some non-facts, some ambiguous "facts," and some deliberate misinterpretations of a fact, and you need a referee. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

07-09-2010, 08:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,548	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Not all facts are known by all players. Scatter in some non-facts, some ambiguous "facts," and some deliberate misinterpretations of a fact, and you need a referee. throw in some knocked over pieces, pieces deliberately left off the board, pawn promotions captured with imaginary pieces, pieces placed back at random - you name it. All with moves not being recorded. I have seen it. Also seen 2 kings checking each other for a few moves.

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