Writing Down Your Move Rule - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 03-01-2009, 03:24 PM

An interesting article on The Closet Grandmaster appeared recently:

Article 8 of the official Laws of Chess reads: "In the course of play each player is required to record his own moves and those of his opponent in the correct manner, move after move, as clearly and legibly as possible, in the algebraic notation (Appendix E), on the ‘scoresheet’ prescribed for the competition. It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2 or 9.3 [my emphasis]."

I don't know about you but I've always had a problem with that last bolded bit. Of course, I follow the rule, but prior to its introduction my method was to first write down a move before actually playing it. And yes, many a times back then I would re-examine the position, thought for a little more, then changed what I wrote. It is apparently exactly this kind of behaviour that the rule is designed to prevent for, as some would say, it's tantamount to cheating.

* expletive deleted*

If it's a product of my own thinking process, how in the hec is it cheating? Honestly, it's a total joke.

Firstly, I agree with Amiel concerning this. I don't see how this practice is cheating as it offers nothing of value or benefit to your opponent nor to yourself. Its like saying drinking coffee during your game is cheating.

Maybe there is an argument that if your opponent sees you write down a move, he will then turn his mind to lines associated with that move - and then if you play something else his time has been wasted.

However, in regards to this I think that if someone is audacious enough to look at his opponent's score sheet during the game, then if he is lead astray in his thinking as a result it is his own fault.

Clearly an example of a rule that should be scrapped.

**JacksonWShowalter** · 03-05-2009, 09:56 AM

An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect?

**Thomas Bishop** · 03-05-2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by JacksonWShowalter

An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect?

In my experience usually the chess administrators are not the ones playing the game, they were the ones who used to play the game, and as such are usually out of touch with the concerns and issues confronting average chess PLAYERS.

**Noddy** · 04-17-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by JacksonWShowalter

An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect?

Maybe I expect some common sense to prevail!

**Firegoat7** · 05-29-2009, 11:08 PM

The current Fide rules regarding writing down your move are wrongly thought out in my opinion.

For example, Currently you are allowed to make your response before writing down your opponents move. Previously you were not allowed to play like this.
The introduction of digital clocks with incremental time controls allowed this rule change to slip under the radar. In my opinion, Fide should re-examine this rule and fix it.

**Lekko** · 05-30-2009, 09:48 AM

It would be much better if you had someone kibitzing each game, writing the moves down for the both of you. Or two people even.

**Just2Good** · 05-30-2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

The current Fide rules regarding writing down your move are wrongly thought out in my opinion.

For example, Currently you are allowed to make your response before writing down your opponents move. Previously you were not allowed to play like this.
The introduction of digital clocks with incremental time controls allowed this rule change to slip under the radar. In my opinion, Fide should re-examine this rule and fix it.

Agreed!

In the 90's I read a book written by a Grandmaster who advised writing down your move, and your opponent's move, on your opponent's time. He reckoned that this could save you up to a few minutes every game - which could amount to valuable time in a closely fight game. This was of course the pre-increment period.

But to force that approach on people, especially player's who have long been in the habit of writing their move on their own score sheet first, just seems out of step with the wishes of the general chess playing population.

**flavid dude** · 09-22-2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

An interesting article on The Closet Grandmaster appeared recently:

Firstly, I agree with Amiel concerning this. I don't see how this practice is cheating as it offers nothing of value or benefit to your opponent nor to yourself. Its like saying drinking coffee during your game is cheating.

Maybe there is an argument that if your opponent sees you write down a move, he will then turn his mind to lines associated with that move - and then if you play something else his time has been wasted.

However, in regards to this I think that if someone is audacious enough to look at his opponent's score sheet during the game, then if he is lead astray in his thinking as a result it is his own fault.

Clearly an example of a rule that should be scrapped.

This rule was brought in by FIDE. I am not quite sure why. Lots of old chess books used to say write the move down first. I blunder more since the rule was changed. What I used to object to was persons writing down a move then covering it up. Fortunately this should not happen any more.

**Il cavaliere inesistente** · 01-30-2010, 05:18 PM

It is forbidden to write down your move before you make it it has been for some time now. Why not stop whinging and get on with t'game lads

**Simon** · 01-31-2010, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Il cavaliere inesistente

It is forbidden to write down your move before you make it it has been for some time now. Why not stop whinging and get on with t'game lads

Are you allowed to write anything down before you make your move? What if it is not on the move sheet, maybe you are writing a letter to your uncle or something like that during the game. Is that a breaking of the rules?

**Iconoclast** · 01-31-2010, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Are you allowed to write anything down before you make your move? What if it is not on the move sheet, maybe you are writing a letter to your uncle or something like that during the game. Is that a breaking of the rules?

You can pick your nose and use it to draw manga if you wish. Just don't write down the/a move before you make it.

**Just2Good** · 01-31-2010, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

You can pick your nose and use it to draw manga if you wish. Just don't write down the/a move before you make it.

I'm not sure if that is true. What is you start doing calculations on paper during a game - that would probably violate the rules.

**Iconoclast** · 01-31-2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

I'm not sure if that is true. What is you start doing calculations on paper during a game - that would probably violate the rules.

Calculations? You mean like integrating simultaneous trigonometric functions in eleven dimensions from first principles with inferred proofs? I don't need paper to to that - do you.

**MOZ** · 01-31-2010, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Calculations? You mean like integrating simultaneous trigonometric functions in eleven dimensions from first principles with inferred proofs? I don't need paper to to that - do you.

Eek

I do now.
I have nearly filled up my internal cpu.

Wait till YOU are older my friend.

**Iconoclast** · 02-01-2010, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by MOZ

I have nearly filled up my internal cpu.

Wait till YOU are older my friend.

You have a CPU? All I have is an abacus sans beads.

03-01-2009, 03:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Writing Down Your Move Rule An interesting article on The Closet Grandmaster appeared recently: Article 8 of the official Laws of Chess reads: "In the course of play each player is required to record his own moves and those of his opponent in the correct manner, move after move, as clearly and legibly as possible, in the algebraic notation (Appendix E), on the ‘scoresheet’ prescribed for the competition. It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2 or 9.3 [my emphasis]." I don't know about you but I've always had a problem with that last bolded bit. Of course, I follow the rule, but prior to its introduction my method was to first write down a move before actually playing it. And yes, many a times back then I would re-examine the position, thought for a little more, then changed what I wrote. It is apparently exactly this kind of behaviour that the rule is designed to prevent for, as some would say, it's tantamount to cheating. * expletive deleted* If it's a product of my own thinking process, how in the hec is it cheating? Honestly, it's a total joke. Firstly, I agree with Amiel concerning this. I don't see how this practice is cheating as it offers nothing of value or benefit to your opponent nor to yourself. Its like saying drinking coffee during your game is cheating. Maybe there is an argument that if your opponent sees you write down a move, he will then turn his mind to lines associated with that move - and then if you play something else his time has been wasted. However, in regards to this I think that if someone is audacious enough to look at his opponent's score sheet during the game, then if he is lead astray in his thinking as a result it is his own fault. Clearly an example of a rule that should be scrapped. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

03-05-2009, 12:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Thomas Bishop Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 248	Originally Posted by JacksonWShowalter An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect? In my experience usually the chess administrators are not the ones playing the game, they were the ones who used to play the game, and as such are usually out of touch with the concerns and issues confronting average chess PLAYERS.

04-17-2009, 08:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Noddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Toyland Posts: 255	Originally Posted by JacksonWShowalter An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect? Maybe I expect some common sense to prevail!

05-29-2009, 11:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	The current Fide rules regarding writing down your move are wrongly thought out in my opinion. For example, Currently you are allowed to make your response before writing down your opponents move. Previously you were not allowed to play like this. The introduction of digital clocks with incremental time controls allowed this rule change to slip under the radar. In my opinion, Fide should re-examine this rule and fix it. __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

05-30-2009, 12:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Time Rule is Bad! Originally Posted by Firegoat7 The current Fide rules regarding writing down your move are wrongly thought out in my opinion. For example, Currently you are allowed to make your response before writing down your opponents move. Previously you were not allowed to play like this. The introduction of digital clocks with incremental time controls allowed this rule change to slip under the radar. In my opinion, Fide should re-examine this rule and fix it. Agreed! In the 90's I read a book written by a Grandmaster who advised writing down your move, and your opponent's move, on your opponent's time. He reckoned that this could save you up to a few minutes every game - which could amount to valuable time in a closely fight game. This was of course the pre-increment period. But to force that approach on people, especially player's who have long been in the habit of writing their move on their own score sheet first, just seems out of step with the wishes of the general chess playing population. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

03-05-2009, 09:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
JacksonWShowalter Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 31	An asinine rule. But considering the horse’s patoots running things (maybe even playing) these days, what can you expect?

05-30-2009, 09:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lekko HBK Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,311 ICC Handle: Heartbreak-Kid FICS Handle: HeartBreakingKid	It would be much better if you had someone kibitzing each game, writing the moves down for the both of you. Or two people even.

09-22-2009, 11:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
flavid dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 329	alas this is a Fide rule Originally Posted by Arrogant-One An interesting article on The Closet Grandmaster appeared recently: Firstly, I agree with Amiel concerning this. I don't see how this practice is cheating as it offers nothing of value or benefit to your opponent nor to yourself. Its like saying drinking coffee during your game is cheating. Maybe there is an argument that if your opponent sees you write down a move, he will then turn his mind to lines associated with that move - and then if you play something else his time has been wasted. However, in regards to this I think that if someone is audacious enough to look at his opponent's score sheet during the game, then if he is lead astray in his thinking as a result it is his own fault. Clearly an example of a rule that should be scrapped. This rule was brought in by FIDE. I am not quite sure why. Lots of old chess books used to say write the move down first. I blunder more since the rule was changed. What I used to object to was persons writing down a move then covering it up. Fortunately this should not happen any more.

01-30-2010, 05:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Il cavaliere inesistente Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 196	The rule is the rule is the rule It is forbidden to write down your move before you make it it has been for some time now. Why not stop whinging and get on with t'game lads

01-31-2010, 08:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
Simon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 162	Originally Posted by Il cavaliere inesistente It is forbidden to write down your move before you make it it has been for some time now. Why not stop whinging and get on with t'game lads Are you allowed to write anything down before you make your move? What if it is not on the move sheet, maybe you are writing a letter to your uncle or something like that during the game. Is that a breaking of the rules?

01-31-2010, 06:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Simon Are you allowed to write anything down before you make your move? What if it is not on the move sheet, maybe you are writing a letter to your uncle or something like that during the game. Is that a breaking of the rules? You can pick your nose and use it to draw manga if you wish. Just don't write down the/a move before you make it. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

01-31-2010, 07:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Iconoclast You can pick your nose and use it to draw manga if you wish. Just don't write down the/a move before you make it. I'm not sure if that is true. What is you start doing calculations on paper during a game - that would probably violate the rules. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

01-31-2010, 10:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Just2Good I'm not sure if that is true. What is you start doing calculations on paper during a game - that would probably violate the rules. Calculations? You mean like integrating simultaneous trigonometric functions in eleven dimensions from first principles with inferred proofs? I don't need paper to to that - do you. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

01-31-2010, 11:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Originally Posted by Iconoclast Calculations? You mean like integrating simultaneous trigonometric functions in eleven dimensions from first principles with inferred proofs? I don't need paper to to that - do you. Eek I do now. I have nearly filled up my internal cpu. Wait till YOU are older my friend. __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

02-01-2010, 05:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by MOZ I have nearly filled up my internal cpu. Wait till YOU are older my friend. You have a CPU? All I have is an abacus sans beads. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

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