Ban or just a warning, vote now! - OzChess

**Kings of chess** · 06-14-2011, 08:49 PM

If player withdrew from the tournament for the first time,
- should player be banned
or
- should player receive the warning letter only.

Ban or just a Warning, vote now!

**Firegoat7** · 06-14-2011, 09:23 PM

Hi Kings of chess,

Why is this an either or argument? Do I really care if a player withdraws from a tournament? No. Over the years I have changed my opinion on this a bit. I used to think its not fair to the players, but now I realise, they paid for the experience. Lets all stop pretending that it really matters.

Would a marathon player be disqualified for not finishing the event?

Should we punish a person who cannot finish a chess tournament that lasts longer then a marathon?

Just don't give them a refund and tell them to toughen up!

**Just2Good** · 06-15-2011, 06:26 AM

The situation would be somewhat different if the ACF did what the Canadian Chess Federation has been doing for years. Namely, awarding the player who showed up to an empty board full rating points as though they had in fact won their game, and deducting from the absentee rating points as though they had actually played and lost.

But alas, such sensible approaches seem wasted on the current ACF Ratings officer who is too busy to consider innovative approaches due to his agenda of stopping Tornelo.

**drjukka** · 06-15-2011, 11:52 AM

I'm with Firegoat - should be more options and also with J2G that the ratings approach would hurt. I'm just picking up the pieces after a long layoff and think the draconian penalty threats from CAQ would certainly stop me from committing to a tournament - especially given my time commitments. Maybe I'll play over the border with AC. !

All that said - one year ban is harsh in the extreme IMHO.

DrJ

**Firegoat7** · 06-30-2011, 09:31 PM

Hi Kings of chess,

How about an interview with the player who received the harsh penalty. Would love to hear in his own words what he thinks of Gray and his decisions. Would it be possible to do a live interview in Qld or even the Ozchess shoutbox?

**Kings of chess** · 06-30-2011, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi Kings of chess,

How about an interview with the player who received the harsh penalty. Would love to hear in his own words what he thinks of Gray and his decisions. Would it be possible to do a live interview in Qld or even the Ozchess shoutbox?

The following email has been sent to CAQ rep's;

Code:

Dear CAQ representatives,
Note 1;

I just would like to ask you if you ever tried to contact Mr Mirsad Berbic by phone?
Could you please provide me his phone number to contact him in regards to the penalty ?
I may try to help in this matter and perhaps convince Mr Berbic to reply to the Council, 
unless there was more than just a withdrawal.
Furthermore, I would like to protest against such cruel penalties and would like to put this 
matter on the council board.
I think that instant penalties and 12 month bans in Queensland should be avoided, rather for
the first time,  just a warning to be sent.

Amir Karibasic

Note 2; 

Dear CAQ representative,

I would like to inform you that for all correspondence and other matters,  in regards to
 the Kings of chess club Inc.
you are obligated,  according our club policy,  to email or to contact the President of the club
(and not only other executive members).
All outgoing and ingoing correspondence must be verified with the President of the club, 
otherwise may be considered as illegal. 
I would be appreciated if you give this note by the next meeting of the CAQ Council.

Best Regards,
President; Amir Karibasic
Kings of chess Inc.

**Kings of chess** · 07-01-2011, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Hi Kings of chess,

How about an interview with the player who received the harsh penalty.
Would love to hear in his own words what he thinks of Gray and his decisions.
Would it be possible to do a live interview in Qld or even the Ozchess shoutbox?

Here is the diplomatic answer from * ( I believe here is nothing to hide as this an official comment in regards to the important matter for Australian Chess), who replied;;

*Removed*

*added*;

I will reply to Firegoat in translation;
I have received the following information in regards to the withdrawal of Mr Mirsad Berbic;
- Mr Mirsad Berbic withdrew without an incident (did not arrive for the next round).
- Mr Berbic was contacted on phone by Garvin Gray several times (?!)
- CAQ cannot supply any private person with his phone number and it is too late anyway as the case is closed.
- This matter about cruel penalties can be dicussed by attending the CASQ meeting or club meetings.

Well my opinion will be;

I myself simple don't believe that Mr Garvin Gray ever contacted Mr Mirsad Berbic
by phone.
We will try to find his contact details if we can for an Interview.
However, I noticed that someone from ACF rep's stated that Mirsad Berbic withdrew once more
in the past but this information is incorrect.
He cancelled his particpation 7 days before the start of the tournament.
ACF representative (We know who he is) has been misinformed by Garvin Gray(I believe as stated on chesschat) in this case.!?

**Jaydon** · 07-01-2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kings of chess

( I believe here is nothing to hide as this an official comment in regards to the important matter for Australian Chess), who replied;;
!?

Although you may feel he has nothing to hide I do not encourage the posting of private mail without the consent of the sender and therefore edited the relevant parts of your post.

Thanks

**Kings of chess** · 07-01-2011, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jaydon

Although you may feel he has nothing to hide I do not encourage the posting of private mail without the consent of the sender and therefore edited the relevant parts of your post.

Thanks

Ozchessforum mods have set the standard higher than chesschat who still display private emails.
This forum is just advanced with democracy.
I am not sure why ozchessforum is banned to be advertised in the Australian chess news letter ( I noticed that Chesschat mods even displayed Serena Williams - Tennis player photo in a near nude stance).
Thank you Jaydon for letting me know.

**Firegoat7** · 07-06-2011, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kings of chess

I am not sure why ozchessforum is banned to be advertised in the Australian chess news letter ( I noticed that Chesschat mods even displayed Serena Williams - Tennis player photo in a near nude stance).
Thank you Jaydon for letting me know.

This recent post by Kevin Bonham, who represents The ACF on chesschat might help to explain things Kings of Chess

Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

firegoat's claim that he stopped posting here because of past bans is not all that convincing anyway. His long ban from the site started on 18 July 2008, six months after his last post. He had several suspensions in 2006-7 but at the time he stopped posting he had only had a one-day full ban and a one-month shoutbox ban in the previous several months.

So according to Kevin Bonham, who represents the ACF on Chesschat, you can see that I (fg7) was banned for a considerable period of time on Chesschat, 6 months after my last post!!.

Yikes! I didn't post for 6 months then received a long term ban! Now, if anybody is in any doubt about the controlling nature of these ACF PR disasters, well the they just ain't listening. Ozchess is shining beacon of democracy compared to the tyranny of the ACF/Chesschat dictatortship.
These are the very same tyrants who prevent Ozchess from being advertised!
The same people who won't hold democratic elections on their site!

cheers,

**Lekko** · 07-06-2011, 02:42 AM

There shouldn't be anything wrong with withdrawing from a tournament. I thought I could handle playing the MCC Open and exams but I realised I couldn't and withdrew from the tournament. It should really be that big of an issue that you'd go as far as banning them..

**The Raven** · 07-06-2011, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Now, if anybody is in any doubt about the controlling nature of these ACF PR disasters, well then they just ain't listening. Ozchess is a shining beacon of democracy compared to the tyranny of the ACF/Chesschat dictatorship.
These are the very same tyrants who prevent Ozchess from being advertised!
The same people who won't hold democratic elections on their site!

**Gold Coast** · 07-07-2011, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Heartbreak Kid

There shouldn't be anything wrong with withdrawing from a tournament. I thought I could handle playing the MCC Open and exams but I realised I couldn't and withdrew from the tournament. It should really be that big of an issue that you'd go as far as banning them..

In fact, everyone was scared that you left chess for good.

The other problem is that banning people from chess has an impact on the other chess players.
I don't know who Mirsad Berbic is even if he comes from Bosnia. I met Cameron De Vere and I think he is not a bad person at all.
If I would be a good friend with any of those two players, most likely I would never play chess in QLD again.

**Gold Coast** · 07-31-2011, 01:00 PM

The banned player Mirsad Berbic is more important for CAQ
as you could see on the list bellow:
BIG RED LETTERS IN CAPITAL is the banned player than it starts with the members. It should be the other way.

Code:

PLAYERS BANNED FROM RATED EVENTS   
     
BERBIC Mirsad Senior Associate 4175505      
     
 Membership At 29th July, 2011 (361)  
     
SURNAME KNOWN AS STATUS CLUB ACF ID No 
     
ABRAHAMS Daniel Cadet Associate 0000000 
AGER John Life Member Redcliffe 4134293 
AL ZAHER Louay Senior Brisbane 4198333 
ALEXANDER DJ Cadet Gardiner Chess 4548620 
ALLAN Tosh Cadet Gardiner Chess 4558081 
ALLEN James Cadet Gardiner Chess 0000000 
ANDREW Andras Cadet Brisbane 0000000 
ANDREW David Senior Brisbane 4555885 
ANSTEY-WALSH Abbey Cadet Associate 0000000 
BAKER Travis Junior Toowoomba 4554905 
BALISKY Lawrence Senior Suncoast 0000000 
BALWIN Michael Senior Brisbane 4558184 
BARGO Peter-John Junior Redcliffe 4550112
etc....

**Iconoclast** · 07-31-2011, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gold Coast

BIG RED LETTERS IN CAPITAL is the banned player then it starts with the members.

In circles as small as chess, the megaflagging of a banned player is entirely unnecessary. A note using the QLD Club Secretaries email list would suffice. The lack of explanation invites speculation that impugns the player's character. I would say that such megaflagging is deformation.

View Poll Results: Ban or just a warning after 1st time withdrawal - vote now!
Ban the player! (CAQ policy is a ban for 12 months)	0	0%
Send the player just a warning after 1st time withdrawal	9	100.00%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

06-14-2011, 08:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kings of chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 393	Ban or just a warning, vote now! If player withdrew from the tournament for the first time, - should player be banned or - should player receive the warning letter only. Ban or just a Warning, vote now! __________________ www.kingsofchess.biz Last edited by Kings of chess : 07-31-2011 at 02:04 PM

06-14-2011, 09:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Hi Kings of chess, Why is this an either or argument? Do I really care if a player withdraws from a tournament? No. Over the years I have changed my opinion on this a bit. I used to think its not fair to the players, but now I realise, they paid for the experience. Lets all stop pretending that it really matters. Would a marathon player be disqualified for not finishing the event? Should we punish a person who cannot finish a chess tournament that lasts longer then a marathon? Just don't give them a refund and tell them to toughen up! __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

06-15-2011, 06:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	The situation would be somewhat different if the ACF did what the Canadian Chess Federation has been doing for years. Namely, awarding the player who showed up to an empty board full rating points as though they had in fact won their game, and deducting from the absentee rating points as though they had actually played and lost. But alas, such sensible approaches seem wasted on the current ACF Ratings officer who is too busy to consider innovative approaches due to his agenda of stopping Tornelo. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

06-30-2011, 09:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Hi Kings of chess, How about an interview with the player who received the harsh penalty. Would love to hear in his own words what he thinks of Gray and his decisions. Would it be possible to do a live interview in Qld or even the Ozchess shoutbox? __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

06-15-2011, 11:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
drjukka Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 71	I'm with Firegoat - should be more options and also with J2G that the ratings approach would hurt. I'm just picking up the pieces after a long layoff and think the draconian penalty threats from CAQ would certainly stop me from committing to a tournament - especially given my time commitments. Maybe I'll play over the border with AC. ! All that said - one year ban is harsh in the extreme IMHO. DrJ

07-01-2011, 06:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kings of chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 393	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Hi Kings of chess, How about an interview with the player who received the harsh penalty. Would love to hear in his own words what he thinks of Gray and his decisions. Would it be possible to do a live interview in Qld or even the Ozchess shoutbox? *Here is the diplomatic answer from ( I believe here is nothing to hide as this an official comment in regards to the important matter for Australian Chess), who replied;;** Removed added; I will reply to Firegoat in translation; I have received the following information in regards to the withdrawal of Mr Mirsad Berbic; - Mr Mirsad Berbic withdrew without an incident (did not arrive for the next round). - Mr Berbic was contacted on phone by Garvin Gray several times (?!) - CAQ cannot supply any private person with his phone number and it is too late anyway as the case is closed. - This matter about cruel penalties can be dicussed by attending the CASQ meeting or club meetings. Well my opinion will be; I myself simple don't believe that Mr Garvin Gray ever contacted Mr Mirsad Berbic by phone. We will try to find his contact details if we can for an Interview. However, I noticed that someone from ACF rep's stated that Mirsad Berbic withdrew once more in the past but this information is incorrect. He cancelled his particpation 7 days before the start of the tournament. ACF representative (We know who he is) has been misinformed by Garvin Gray(I believe as stated on chesschat) in this case.!? __________________ www.kingsofchess.biz Last edited by Kings of chess : 07-01-2011 at 10:39 PM Reason: Privacy

07-01-2011, 02:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jaydon SCTC Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Queensland, Gold Coast Posts: 1,101 ICC Handle: Aussieboy007 FICS Handle: Bermusia	Originally Posted by Kings of chess ( I believe here is nothing to hide as this an official comment in regards to the important matter for Australian Chess), who replied;; !? Although you may feel he has nothing to hide I do not encourage the posting of private mail without the consent of the sender and therefore edited the relevant parts of your post. Thanks

07-01-2011, 05:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kings of chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 393	Originally Posted by Jaydon Although you may feel he has nothing to hide I do not encourage the posting of private mail without the consent of the sender and therefore edited the relevant parts of your post. Thanks Ozchessforum mods have set the standard higher than chesschat who still display private emails. This forum is just advanced with democracy. I am not sure why ozchessforum is banned to be advertised in the Australian chess news letter ( I noticed that Chesschat mods even displayed Serena Williams - Tennis player photo in a near nude stance). Thank you Jaydon for letting me know. __________________ www.kingsofchess.biz

07-06-2011, 01:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by Kings of chess I am not sure why ozchessforum is banned to be advertised in the Australian chess news letter ( I noticed that Chesschat mods even displayed Serena Williams - Tennis player photo in a near nude stance). Thank you Jaydon for letting me know. This recent post by Kevin Bonham, who represents The ACF on chesschat might help to explain things Kings of Chess Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham firegoat's claim that he stopped posting here because of past bans is not all that convincing anyway. His long ban from the site started on 18 July 2008, six months after his last post. He had several suspensions in 2006-7 but at the time he stopped posting he had only had a one-day full ban and a one-month shoutbox ban in the previous several months. So according to Kevin Bonham, who represents the ACF on Chesschat, you can see that I (fg7) was banned for a considerable period of time on Chesschat, 6 months after my last post!!. Yikes! I didn't post for 6 months then received a long term ban! Now, if anybody is in any doubt about the controlling nature of these ACF PR disasters, well the they just ain't listening. Ozchess is shining beacon of democracy compared to the tyranny of the ACF/Chesschat dictatortship. These are the very same tyrants who prevent Ozchess from being advertised! The same people who won't hold democratic elections on their site! cheers, __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

07-06-2011, 02:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
Lekko HBK Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,359 ICC Handle: Heartbreak-Kid FICS Handle: HeartBreakingKid	There shouldn't be anything wrong with withdrawing from a tournament. I thought I could handle playing the MCC Open and exams but I realised I couldn't and withdrew from the tournament. It should really be that big of an issue that you'd go as far as banning them.. __________________ Originally Posted by Iconoclast Girls attract boys. more girls playing chess = many more boys playing chess

07-06-2011, 03:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
The Raven Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 54	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Now, if anybody is in any doubt about the controlling nature of these ACF PR disasters, well then they just ain't listening. Ozchess is a shining beacon of democracy compared to the tyranny of the ACF/Chesschat dictatorship. These are the very same tyrants who prevent Ozchess from being advertised! The same people who won't hold democratic elections on their site! Last edited by The Raven : 07-06-2011 at 07:57 PM

07-07-2011, 06:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
Gold Coast Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: GOLD COAST Posts: 168	Originally Posted by Heartbreak Kid There shouldn't be anything wrong with withdrawing from a tournament. I thought I could handle playing the MCC Open and exams but I realised I couldn't and withdrew from the tournament. It should really be that big of an issue that you'd go as far as banning them.. In fact, everyone was scared that you left chess for good. The other problem is that banning people from chess has an impact on the other chess players. I don't know who Mirsad Berbic is even if he comes from Bosnia. I met Cameron De Vere and I think he is not a bad person at all. If I would be a good friend with any of those two players, most likely I would never play chess in QLD again. __________________ . . Visit my: Chesshop Last edited by Gold Coast : 07-07-2011 at 08:02 PM

07-31-2011, 06:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by Gold Coast BIG RED LETTERS IN CAPITAL is the banned player then it starts with the members. In circles as small as chess, the megaflagging of a banned player is entirely unnecessary. A note using the QLD Club Secretaries email list would suffice. The lack of explanation invites speculation that impugns the player's character. I would say that such megaflagging is deformation. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

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