Garvin Gray's Arbiter Fees - OzChess

**Kings of chess** · 05-19-2011, 08:17 AM

Garvin Gray likes to complain to other tournament organisers for not inviting him to run for the Arbiter job, but the CAQ didn't even give me an offer to participate in any of CAQ tournaments as an arbiter.
Judge for your self!
Here are the Garvin fees:

Code:

5 	Ratification of Email Decisions
5.1	The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $600 as arbiter of the 2011 Qld Open
5.2	The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $400 as arbiter of the 2011 Qld Championship
5.3	The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $175 for 2011 Qld Championship accommodation

Most of these fees, I would donate to Juniors who need some financial support to rise their moral for chess improvement.
I am not sure what Garvin is going to do with $1,175.00 which he shall be earning.

**Firegoat7** · 05-19-2011, 11:39 AM

Interesting,

I do believe arbiters should be paid because it is a job that requires a certain level of professionalism. However, I would much rather see a governing body use an arbiter who is willing to donate back their fees, even if that person was a complete beginner, then waste money for such an expenditure. If there is a choice, then go with the person who will give back to chess, regardless of the quality of the service.

I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way. In my opinion, they should negotiate a contract with the arbiter to get better value. Bulletins, State organisational work, webpage updates etc etc. Make those greedy arbiters work a little bit harder for their money so they give something back!

**Firegoat7** · 05-19-2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

aboiut how much a day did it work out - as he is only lowly-rated player and not a doctor like Charles Z is his rates should be only nominal I think.

I don't think being a Doctor should make any difference.

**Brian** · 05-19-2011, 12:30 PM

When you run tournaments with the 3-1-0 scoring system, what do you expect? A silver platter?

**Just2Good** · 05-19-2011, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way.

Garvin, as CAQ President, likely disagrees and is quite content with the current arrangement. I just hope no one reports him to Centrelink, because when I was living one suburb over from Garvin who resides in The Gap, I know for a fact he was receiving disability benefits for a back injury.

Strange that someone can still work full time as an arbiter, yet have a disability requiring government assistance.

**Kings of chess** · 05-19-2011, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Firegoat7

Interesting,

I do believe arbiters should be paid because it is a job that requires a certain level of professionalism. However, I would much rather see a governing body use an arbiter who is willing to donate back their fees, even if that person was a complete beginner, then waste money for such an expenditure. If there is a choice, then go with the person who will give back to chess, regardless of the quality of the service.

I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way. In my opinion, they should negotiate a contract with the arbiter to get better value. Bulletins, State organisational work, webpage updates etc etc. Make those greedy arbiters work a little bit harder for their money so they give something back!

The Problem is that CAQ (non-for profit organisation gets milked) does everything what GG wants.
The Arbiter should be paid, but don't we have some kind of limit?
I am not sure how Garvin Grey is counted as an professional Arbiter!?

1. He cannot communicate with the players. ( must improve)
2. He loves money and not chess. (needs to stop milking CAQ)
3. He is not able to work with live games transmission (one of the condition to become IA),
he just drags DGT boards around that everyone thinks he is The Professional
( must spend more time with Live games and not wasting time on Chesschat).

**Just2Good** · 05-27-2011, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kings of chess

The Problem is that CAQ (non-for profit organisation gets milked) does everything what GG wants.
The Arbiter should be paid, but don't we have some kind of limit?
I am not sure how Garvin Grey is counted as an professional Arbiter!?

1. He cannot communicate with the players. ( must improve)
2. He loves money and not chess. (needs to stop milking CAQ)
3. He is not able to work with live games transmission (one of the condition to become IA),
he just drags DGT boards around that everyone thinks he is The Professional
( must spend more time with Live games and not wasting time on Chesschat).

There is plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps he spends so much time on Chess Chat because Kevin basically takes his orders from Garvin these days.

**antichrist** · 05-27-2011, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

There is plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps he spends so much time on Chess Chat because Kevin basically takes his orders from Garvin these days.

Bit of a convaluted sentence from a lawyer isn't it? The judge would be asking you to clarify what you mean

**antichrist** · 05-27-2011, 06:16 PM

[Today 05:10 PM] Kevin Bonham: a judge would be laughing it out of court

Today 05:09 PM] antichrist: J2G, Bit of a convaluted sentence from a lawyer isn't it, a judge would be asking you to clarify it

**Just2Good** · 05-27-2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by antichrist

[Today 05:10 PM]Kevin Bonham: a judge would be laughing it out of court

Careful AC,

Kevin doesn't like it when his shouts are re-produced as posts on OzChess. He might make up a rule on CC about it, and use it as a pre-text to ban you

**antichrist** · 05-27-2011, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Just2Good

Careful AC,

Kevin doesn't like it when his shouts are re-produced as posts on OzChess. He might make up a rule on CC about it, and use it as a pre-text to ban you

you mean like when they arrested Pinochet in Britain or Spain was it?

**Rex** · 05-28-2011, 12:38 PM

As Garvin is CAQ President and there is no one else invited to tender for the job as arbitor. Is this not insider trading and against the law?
Qld incorporation Act I believe have rules about such going on's.
Chess Chat seems to be on his side so what does that say about Chess Chat?

**ChessGuru** · 06-03-2011, 09:35 PM

The CV President got paid more than that to run a 1-day tournament here in Victoria!

I think there is a culture in chess admin in Aus that you don't do anything unless you're paid. A lot of admins also claim "reimbursements" which would turn an eye or two in other NFPs.

Yes, for some events you might need a paid arbiter, but many sports have volunteer arbiters right up to Nationals and even beyond. And it costs them travel/accommodation as well...

There is a big outcry against "commercial interest" in chess, but the reality is that someone like myself never charges anything to mainstream chess players, I only sponsor, donate, share ... perhaps the fear of commercial interest from Chess Admin stems from them potentially losing their opportunity to "milk" the association they supposedly work for.

Even players share this mercenary attitude - try getting players to play without cash prizemoney, ask an IM to pay an entry fee...

**antichrist** · 06-04-2011, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by ChessGuru

Even players share this mercenary attitude - try getting players to play without cash prizemoney, ask an IM to pay an entry fee...

Players play their weekly club chess mostly without prizemoney.

And those who go to weekend tourneys often realise that they cannot win but go for the social side, the chess side and to contribute to prizemoney for others and to support chess. Some players who don't win a point at Doeberl still go there and claim to have a wow of a time.

During Sydney Easter Cup I had terrific people being DOP etc and asking no fees or concessions.

Now CG, that may not have an organiser next year, there is an opening for you

**Just2Good** · 06-04-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by antichrist

Players play their weekly club chess mostly without prizemoney.

And those who go to weekend tourneys often realise that they cannot win but go for the social side, the chess side and to contribute to prizemoney for others and to support chess. Some players who don't win a point at Doeberl still go there and claim to have a wow of a time.

During Sydney Easter Cup I had terrific people being DOP etc and asking no fees or concessions.

Well I'll be damned!

A good post by antichrist which actually relates to chess! What is the world coming to?

Keep this up AC, and the circus folk might actually come to miss you when you are permanently banned there.

05-19-2011, 08:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kings of chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 393	Garvin Gray's Arbiter Fees Garvin Gray likes to complain to other tournament organisers for not inviting him to run for the Arbiter job, but the CAQ didn't even give me an offer to participate in any of CAQ tournaments as an arbiter. Judge for your self! Here are the Garvin fees: Code: 5 Ratification of Email Decisions 5.1 The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $600 as arbiter of the 2011 Qld Open 5.2 The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $400 as arbiter of the 2011 Qld Championship 5.3 The Council agreed to pay Garvin Gray $175 for 2011 Qld Championship accommodation Most of these fees, I would donate to Juniors who need some financial support to rise their moral for chess improvement. I am not sure what Garvin is going to do with $1,175.00 which he shall be earning. __________________ www.kingsofchess.biz

05-19-2011, 11:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Interesting, I do believe arbiters should be paid because it is a job that requires a certain level of professionalism. However, I would much rather see a governing body use an arbiter who is willing to donate back their fees, even if that person was a complete beginner, then waste money for such an expenditure. If there is a choice, then go with the person who will give back to chess, regardless of the quality of the service. I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way. In my opinion, they should negotiate a contract with the arbiter to get better value. Bulletins, State organisational work, webpage updates etc etc. Make those greedy arbiters work a little bit harder for their money so they give something back! __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

05-19-2011, 11:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 2,044 ICC Handle: guest	Originally Posted by antichrist aboiut how much a day did it work out - as he is only lowly-rated player and not a doctor like Charles Z is his rates should be only nominal I think. I don't think being a Doctor should make any difference. __________________ "...What I meant? Dear Mr Ian Rout (ACF news publisher) could you please put Ozchessforum in the next news letter! There is no reason to hide this forum from the Australian chess public. What they meant? Sorry, No english!- Amir Karibasic

05-19-2011, 01:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way. Garvin, as CAQ President, likely disagrees and is quite content with the current arrangement. I just hope no one reports him to Centrelink, because when I was living one suburb over from Garvin who resides in The Gap, I know for a fact he was receiving disability benefits for a back injury. Strange that someone can still work full time as an arbiter, yet have a disability requiring government assistance. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

05-19-2011, 05:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kings of chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 393	Originally Posted by Firegoat7 Interesting, I do believe arbiters should be paid because it is a job that requires a certain level of professionalism. However, I would much rather see a governing body use an arbiter who is willing to donate back their fees, even if that person was a complete beginner, then waste money for such an expenditure. If there is a choice, then go with the person who will give back to chess, regardless of the quality of the service. I believe that if bodies like the CAQ are going to pay such high fees for the arbiter, then they should do it in a much smarter way. In my opinion, they should negotiate a contract with the arbiter to get better value. Bulletins, State organisational work, webpage updates etc etc. Make those greedy arbiters work a little bit harder for their money so they give something back! The Problem is that CAQ (non-for profit organisation gets milked) does everything what GG wants. The Arbiter should be paid, but don't we have some kind of limit? I am not sure how Garvin Grey is counted as an professional Arbiter!? 1. He cannot communicate with the players. ( must improve) 2. He loves money and not chess. (needs to stop milking CAQ) 3. He is not able to work with live games transmission (one of the condition to become IA), he just drags DGT boards around that everyone thinks he is The Professional ( must spend more time with Live games and not wasting time on Chesschat). __________________ www.kingsofchess.biz

05-19-2011, 12:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Brian Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 149	When you run tournaments with the 3-1-0 scoring system, what do you expect? A silver platter?

05-27-2011, 02:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Kings of chess The Problem is that CAQ (non-for profit organisation gets milked) does everything what GG wants. The Arbiter should be paid, but don't we have some kind of limit? I am not sure how Garvin Grey is counted as an professional Arbiter!? 1. He cannot communicate with the players. ( must improve) 2. He loves money and not chess. (needs to stop milking CAQ) 3. He is not able to work with live games transmission (one of the condition to become IA), he just drags DGT boards around that everyone thinks he is The Professional ( must spend more time with Live games and not wasting time on Chesschat). There is plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps he spends so much time on Chess Chat because Kevin basically takes his orders from Garvin these days. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

05-27-2011, 06:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by Just2Good There is plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps he spends so much time on Chess Chat because Kevin basically takes his orders from Garvin these days. Bit of a convaluted sentence from a lawyer isn't it? The judge would be asking you to clarify what you mean

05-27-2011, 06:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	from shoutbox [Today 05:10 PM] Kevin Bonham: a judge would be laughing it out of court Today 05:09 PM] antichrist: J2G, Bit of a convaluted sentence from a lawyer isn't it, a judge would be asking you to clarify it

05-27-2011, 06:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by antichrist [Today 05:10 PM]Kevin Bonham: a judge would be laughing it out of court Careful AC, Kevin doesn't like it when his shouts are re-produced as posts on OzChess. He might make up a rule on CC about it, and use it as a pre-text to ban you __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

05-27-2011, 06:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by Just2Good Careful AC, Kevin doesn't like it when his shouts are re-produced as posts on OzChess. He might make up a rule on CC about it, and use it as a pre-text to ban you you mean like when they arrested Pinochet in Britain or Spain was it?

05-28-2011, 12:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rex Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 74	As Garvin is CAQ President and there is no one else invited to tender for the job as arbitor. Is this not insider trading and against the law? Qld incorporation Act I believe have rules about such going on's. Chess Chat seems to be on his side so what does that say about Chess Chat?

06-03-2011, 09:35 PM	#13 (permalink)
ChessGuru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 232	The CV President got paid more than that to run a 1-day tournament here in Victoria! I think there is a culture in chess admin in Aus that you don't do anything unless you're paid. A lot of admins also claim "reimbursements" which would turn an eye or two in other NFPs. Yes, for some events you might need a paid arbiter, but many sports have volunteer arbiters right up to Nationals and even beyond. And it costs them travel/accommodation as well... There is a big outcry against "commercial interest" in chess, but the reality is that someone like myself never charges anything to mainstream chess players, I only sponsor, donate, share ... perhaps the fear of commercial interest from Chess Admin stems from them potentially losing their opportunity to "milk" the association they supposedly work for. Even players share this mercenary attitude - try getting players to play without cash prizemoney, ask an IM to pay an entry fee...

06-04-2011, 02:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
antichrist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Byron Bay, NSW Posts: 2,821	Originally Posted by ChessGuru Even players share this mercenary attitude - try getting players to play without cash prizemoney, ask an IM to pay an entry fee... Players play their weekly club chess mostly without prizemoney. And those who go to weekend tourneys often realise that they cannot win but go for the social side, the chess side and to contribute to prizemoney for others and to support chess. Some players who don't win a point at Doeberl still go there and claim to have a wow of a time. During Sydney Easter Cup I had terrific people being DOP etc and asking no fees or concessions. Now CG, that may not have an organiser next year, there is an opening for you

06-04-2011, 11:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by antichrist Players play their weekly club chess mostly without prizemoney. And those who go to weekend tourneys often realise that they cannot win but go for the social side, the chess side and to contribute to prizemoney for others and to support chess. Some players who don't win a point at Doeberl still go there and claim to have a wow of a time. During Sydney Easter Cup I had terrific people being DOP etc and asking no fees or concessions. Well I'll be damned! A good post by antichrist which actually relates to chess! What is the world coming to? Keep this up AC, and the circus folk might actually come to miss you when you are permanently banned there. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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