Coffee Lounge and the ACF - OzChess

**Iconoclast** · 10-25-2007, 08:42 PM

The ACF now has a top secret Star Chamber called the "Coffee Lounge" (CL.) It is a secret forum on Chess Chat, invisible to members with less than 200 posts. It is inhabitted by: ACF Vice President KB; ACF Imeadiate; Past President Denis Jessop; ACF Ratings Officer Bill Gletsos et al. The CL is so secret that when one poster uttered just a two-word thread name outside the CL, he was banned. The thread is "Toolbox Alert."

The fact that this place exists and is used by top ACF officials and executive to ridicule State Officials and backstab ordinary players, shows that the current ACF is riven with individuals who are not fit to hold office. It should be then of no surprise to anyone, that ACF officials are not democraticly elected to their postion by the players, but self selected individuals who's main objective is the occupy the office and follow the rules - rules that continue to manifestly prevent quality leadership from taking office.

The Coffee Lounge is symptomatic of all that is wrong with the administration of chess in Australia. It is all talk, it is all secret, it is awful.

**Spiny Norman** · 10-26-2007, 08:03 AM

The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF. I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge.

I people on another bulletin board wish to have a semi-private discussion area that is not open to newbies, why should you care?

**MOZ** · 10-26-2007, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by frosty

The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF. I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge.

I people on another bulletin board wish to have a semi-private discussion area that is not open to newbies, why should you care?

Are you comfortable frosty with the ethics of a senior official of the ACF posting in the Coffee Lounge that the Chess Victoria bid, written and signed off by the President of Chess Victoria, is pathetic, even though the President cannot read that forum and is no newbie?

MOZ

ps A test for you in more ways than one?

**Spiny Norman** · 10-26-2007, 12:54 PM

No ... I thought it was unseemly ... and I think I made a wry comment somewhat to that effect at the time.

**Just2Good** · 10-26-2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by frosty

No ... I thought it was unseemly ... and I think I made a wry comment somewhat to that effect at the time.

Are you comfortable Frosty, that defamatory comments are often made in the Coffee Lounge, even though the victim is usually unable to defend themselves not having seen the comment? While I don't know if this is still the case there, it certainly was when I used to frequent Coffee Lounge.

I do want to point out, however, that my intention in setting up this website was NOT to be a place simply to refute CC. Rather I set it up to be a genuine chess resource for Australian players. I am a little sad that refuting CC behaviour seems to has become the dominating discussion here, and yet I understand the need for that.

**Spiny Norman** · 10-26-2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Are you comfortable Frosty, that defamatory comments are often made in the Coffee Lounge.(

I don't know much about defamation. But I would have thought that, if defamatory material were posted in the Coffee Lounge, then it would have to be either substantiated with evidence or removed by the mods. The Coffee Lounge is still a public place, even if there are some restrictions on entry (just like a nightclub might have retrictions on entry to "members only" but I can't go into that club and say defamatory things about someone, as it is still a public place regardless).

**Iconoclast** · 10-26-2007, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by frosty

The Coffee Lounge is still a public place, even if there are some restrictions on entry ...

The CC powers will vigoursly disagree with you. You and I both know it is, in a practical way, a public place - like ashopping mall - but in a legal sense, CC is a private place. That private status is the way the powers legitamise axing punters.

**Iconoclast** · 10-26-2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by frosty

The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF.

It's existance cannot be mentioned on the wider CC board = secret
It is a cubby-house maintained by major ACF identies = ACF has defacto ownership.

I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge.

So what? That does not mean the CL isn't secret, it don't mean the CL isn't an ACF controlled entity.

Having ACF officials backstabbing their way though their term, in CL is a bloody disgrace.

**Spiny Norman** · 10-27-2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

... but in a legal sense, CC is a private place. That private status is the way the powers legitamise axing punters.

I don't think they are claiming that ... and if they are, I suspect they are wrong. But I'm not a lawyer.

**Barry** · 10-27-2007, 08:11 PM

The equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible.

To clear up some misconceptions. The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic onthe main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts).

If any further demonstration of the disjunct between organised chess administration and the coffee lounge is necessary, people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon. In one case a state association president tried this trick was temporarily barred from accessing the CL.

**MOZ** · 10-27-2007, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Barry

The equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible.

To clear up some misconceptions. The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic onthe main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts).

If any further demonstration of the disjunct between organised chess administration and the coffee lounge is necessary, people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon. In one case a state association president tried this trick was temporarily barred from accessing the CL.

Thanks for clearing that up Barry.

I think I understand now.
The use of the words Coffee Lounge to describe that select Forum is allowed. But the use of two words 'Toolbox Watch', a thread name used basically to describe this Forum (OzChess), is not allowed to be uttered in public?
Incidentally, any word how long the banning from the Coffee Lounge for use of the words will be? Now in day 7 from memory.

regards
MOZ

**Iconoclast** · 10-28-2007, 01:00 AM

Barry "Wollongong 2007 Champ" Cox, how are you?
I am missing beating you in the current rapids

Originally Posted by Barry

To equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible.

Come off it. Less moderated or not, the CL is still controlled by ACF officials.

The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic on the main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts).

Ah but, talking about the CL on the main board is discouraged, isn't it Barry! It is only for the in-crowd, so shhhh.

... people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon ...

Why would someone do that if the CL was not an exclusive club. If people are/are banned from that area it is, by definition exclusive [read this]. Now, Barry, you can try as hard as you like to soften the image of the CL, however, it is still demonstrably
1. Used by and
2. Controlled by and
3. Kept exclusive by
ACF officials.

**Just2Good** · 10-28-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Barry

The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible.

That's right. And having a forum where they are generally estopped from moderating threatened their power (ie. the lack of a need for them in the Coffee Lounge Forum) such that they once tried to abolish it.

**Firegoat7** · 10-30-2007, 02:03 AM

Hi,

I would also like point out that Howard Duggans language in the coffee lounge has been racist. Chesschat moderateers have never edited this language. Therefore they tacidly support racism by refusing to moderate one of their pet posters. This problem is amplified because conversation naturally spills out into the public forum where discussion of Coffe Lounge language becomes a bannable offence for those who attract the moderateers evil eye.

Furthermore, Historically speaking, Matt Sweeney and myself were banned from the Coffee Lounge for dropping the odd F word. Even though moderation policy at the time actively admitted it was not an offence.

Now Denis uses the Coffee lounge to slag off people who are not even allowed to read it. Hardly, civilised or engaging conversation from our current ACF co-Vice President. Why does he run and hide in the Coffee lounge if he has so much to say? And why shouldn't those who can't reply within that sphere be allowed to refute his illogical ramblings elsewhere without Chesschat harassment?

cheers Fg7

**Rex** · 10-31-2007, 12:09 AM

Why waste time talking about Howard Duggan, he is a small minded fool.

10-25-2007, 08:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Coffee Lounge and the ACF The ACF now has a top secret Star Chamber called the "Coffee Lounge" (CL.) It is a secret forum on Chess Chat, invisible to members with less than 200 posts. It is inhabitted by: ACF Vice President KB; ACF Imeadiate; Past President Denis Jessop; ACF Ratings Officer Bill Gletsos et al. The CL is so secret that when one poster uttered just a two-word thread name outside the CL, he was banned. The thread is "Toolbox Alert." The fact that this place exists and is used by top ACF officials and executive to ridicule State Officials and backstab ordinary players, shows that the current ACF is riven with individuals who are not fit to hold office. It should be then of no surprise to anyone, that ACF officials are not democraticly elected to their postion by the players, but self selected individuals who's main objective is the occupy the office and follow the rules - rules that continue to manifestly prevent quality leadership from taking office. The Coffee Lounge is symptomatic of all that is wrong with the administration of chess in Australia. It is all talk, it is all secret, it is awful. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-26-2007, 08:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Originally Posted by frosty The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF. I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge. I people on another bulletin board wish to have a semi-private discussion area that is not open to newbies, why should you care? Are you comfortable frosty with the ethics of a senior official of the ACF posting in the Coffee Lounge that the Chess Victoria bid, written and signed off by the President of Chess Victoria, is pathetic, even though the President cannot read that forum and is no newbie? MOZ ps A test for you in more ways than one? Last edited by MOZ : 10-26-2007 at 09:19 AM

10-26-2007, 01:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	OzChess was created as a Chess Resource Originally Posted by frosty No ... I thought it was unseemly ... and I think I made a wry comment somewhat to that effect at the time. Are you comfortable Frosty, that defamatory comments are often made in the Coffee Lounge, even though the victim is usually unable to defend themselves not having seen the comment? While I don't know if this is still the case there, it certainly was when I used to frequent Coffee Lounge. I do want to point out, however, that my intention in setting up this website was NOT to be a place simply to refute CC. Rather I set it up to be a genuine chess resource for Australian players. I am a little sad that refuting CC behaviour seems to has become the dominating discussion here, and yet I understand the need for that. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

10-26-2007, 02:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
Spiny Norman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 224	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Are you comfortable Frosty, that defamatory comments are often made in the Coffee Lounge.( I don't know much about defamation. But I would have thought that, if defamatory material were posted in the Coffee Lounge, then it would have to be either substantiated with evidence or removed by the mods. The Coffee Lounge is still a public place, even if there are some restrictions on entry (just like a nightclub might have retrictions on entry to "members only" but I can't go into that club and say defamatory things about someone, as it is still a public place regardless).

10-26-2007, 05:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by frosty The Coffee Lounge is still a public place, even if there are some restrictions on entry ... The CC powers will vigoursly disagree with you. You and I both know it is, in a practical way, a public place - like ashopping mall - but in a legal sense, CC is a private place. That private status is the way the powers legitamise axing punters. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-26-2007, 08:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Spiny Norman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 224	The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF. I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge. I people on another bulletin board wish to have a semi-private discussion area that is not open to newbies, why should you care?

10-26-2007, 12:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Spiny Norman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 224	No ... I thought it was unseemly ... and I think I made a wry comment somewhat to that effect at the time.

10-26-2007, 06:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Originally Posted by frosty The Coffee Lounge is not some secret construct of the ACF. It's existance cannot be mentioned on the wider CC board = secret It is a cubby-house maintained by major ACF identies = ACF has defacto ownership. I have nothing to do with the ACF myself and I participate in discussion in the Coffee Lounge. So what? That does not mean the CL isn't secret, it don't mean the CL isn't an ACF controlled entity. Having ACF officials backstabbing their way though their term, in CL is a bloody disgrace. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-27-2007, 10:31 AM	#9 (permalink)
Spiny Norman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 224	Originally Posted by Iconoclast ... but in a legal sense, CC is a private place. That private status is the way the powers legitamise axing punters. I don't think they are claiming that ... and if they are, I suspect they are wrong. But I'm not a lawyer.

10-27-2007, 08:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Barry Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wollongong Posts: 66	The equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible. To clear up some misconceptions. The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic onthe main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts). If any further demonstration of the disjunct between organised chess administration and the coffee lounge is necessary, people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon. In one case a state association president tried this trick was temporarily barred from accessing the CL.

10-27-2007, 10:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,495	Behind the GREEN door. Originally Posted by Barry The equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible. To clear up some misconceptions. The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic onthe main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts). If any further demonstration of the disjunct between organised chess administration and the coffee lounge is necessary, people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon. In one case a state association president tried this trick was temporarily barred from accessing the CL. Thanks for clearing that up Barry. I think I understand now. The use of the words Coffee Lounge to describe that select Forum is allowed. But the use of two words 'Toolbox Watch', a thread name used basically to describe this Forum (OzChess), is not allowed to be uttered in public? Incidentally, any word how long the banning from the Coffee Lounge for use of the words will be? Now in day 7 from memory. regards MOZ __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

10-28-2007, 01:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
Iconoclast Immoderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 2,302	Barry "Wollongong 2007 Champ" Cox, how are you? I am missing beating you in the current rapids Originally Posted by Barry To equate the Coffee Lounge with ACF if just silly. They have less to do with one another than the rest of the Chess Chat site and the ACF. The reason? The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible. Come off it. Less moderated or not, the CL is still controlled by ACF officials. The coffee lounge is not restricted to ACF officials or ACF personae non gratia are not likewise excluded from the Coffee Lounge. Furthermore it is not a forbidden topic on the main chess chat forums. In fact, it is mentioned in the first post of the board rules thread, as is the qualification for membership (200 posts). Ah but, talking about the CL on the main board is discouraged, isn't it Barry! It is only for the in-crowd, so shhhh. ... people who artificially raise their post counts to make coffee lounge membership are usually frowned upon ... Why would someone do that if the CL was not an exclusive club. If people are/are banned from that area it is, by definition exclusive [read this]. Now, Barry, you can try as hard as you like to soften the image of the CL, however, it is still demonstrably 1. Used by and 2. Controlled by and 3. Kept exclusive by ACF officials. __________________ The individual is hopeless without the group. The group is hopeless without its individuals.

10-28-2007, 03:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,056 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Mods tried to increase their power by deleting CL! Originally Posted by Barry The Coffee Lounge is largely unmoderated (except in cases of dire need) and the moderators prefer to not moderate there as much as possible. That's right. And having a forum where they are generally estopped from moderating threatened their power (ie. the lack of a need for them in the Coffee Lounge Forum) such that they once tried to abolish it. __________________ . "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller ~

10-30-2007, 02:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
Firegoat7 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Getting owned by White in the Dragon and trying to recover lost positions from shock paralysis OTB Posts: 1,924 ICC Handle: guest	Hi, I would also like point out that Howard Duggans language in the coffee lounge has been racist. Chesschat moderateers have never edited this language. Therefore they tacidly support racism by refusing to moderate one of their pet posters. This problem is amplified because conversation naturally spills out into the public forum where discussion of Coffe Lounge language becomes a bannable offence for those who attract the moderateers evil eye. Furthermore, Historically speaking, Matt Sweeney and myself were banned from the Coffee Lounge for dropping the odd F word. Even though moderation policy at the time actively admitted it was not an offence. Now Denis uses the Coffee lounge to slag off people who are not even allowed to read it. Hardly, civilised or engaging conversation from our current ACF co-Vice President. Why does he run and hide in the Coffee lounge if he has so much to say? And why shouldn't those who can't reply within that sphere be allowed to refute his illogical ramblings elsewhere without Chesschat harassment? cheers Fg7

10-31-2007, 12:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
Rex Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 73	Howard Duggans language in the coffee lounge Why waste time talking about Howard Duggan, he is a small minded fool.

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