The Growth of OzChess - OzChess

**Just2Good** · 12-29-2007, 03:32 PM

Kevin Bonham, a member here at OzChess and moderator at the ********'s Forum, made this post in October of 2007, which I have slightly paraphrased:

Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

********'s Forum post rate since 1 January 2007 has averaged 114.74 posts per day. About 14 posts per day of this is correspondence game moves so the real average is more or less exactly 100.

ACCF started on or slightly before 14 July 2006. By 18 July 2007 it had received approx. 3049 posts at a postrate of 8.26 posts per day. This wasn't rising by this stage but had well and truly stabilised, if not declined (I believe it was around 10-12 posts per day average in the early days of the forum). So ACCF had less than eight percent market share by postcount even before 18 July 2007. If the stat examined is active posters it is even lower than that.

ACCF was never going to be a serious rival.

On or around 18 July 2007 another forum known as OzChess was founded. This effectively killed ACCF within weeks, and since then ACCF has received only about 79 posts at a post-rate of less than one per day.

Naturally OzChess is a bit better supported than ACCF, since it doesn't have a cumbersome membership approval process including a remarkably silly and selectively enforced boy-scout pledge, it is technically superior and its administrator seems to put more energy into running and promoting it. Apart from that it is basically the same demographic.

OzChess is currently averaging 14.6 ppd (almost twice ACCF but still not nowhere near ********'s Forum).

Kevin recently provided an update yesterday or the day before, and I thank Kevin for providing reliable numbers and trust he made efforts to ascertain what the correct numbers were.

Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

Post-rate for OzChess excluding correspondence games since its inception : 17.5 posts per day

As we can see this is almost a 3 post increase per day over the past 2-3 months at least! The words 'since its inception' might even mean that there has been a higher post per day rate than 17.3 over the past 3 months! Go Team!

Kevin then continues: (Slightly paraphrased again)

Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

Post-rate since last update [on ********'s Forum] excluding correspondence games: 84.3 posts per day

Top Posters by postcount

1. Bill Gletsos 11331 [+725]
2. Kevin Bonham 10116 [+1277]
3. ggrayggray 8853 [+566]
4. Rincewind 7905 [+466]
5. ursogr8 5680 [unchanged]
6. antichrist 5674 [-1]*
7. Gunner Duggan 5312 [+1445]
8. arosar 4529 [+30]
9. PHAT 4253 [unchanged]
10. Alan Shore 3871 [unchanged]

I find it interesting that the 3 unchanged posters now post almost exclusively here at OzChess (Iconoclast, Moz, and Gendo), and this seems to have led to a fall of about 16 to 17 posts a day at Karthicks site.

Guess it goes to show that dedication and energy and new ideas and acting civily and courtesly towards one another is the way to grow a forum. Keep up the good work everyone

AO

ps- Kevin, I don't know how this may affect the numbers, but the post count has been turned off for correspondence games - all posts in that forum might have already been excluded from the post count before you manually culled them from your figures. Presumably this may mean the ppd rate is even better than 17.3?

**Bill Gletsos** · 12-29-2007, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

ps- Kevin, I don't know how this may affect the numbers, but the post count has been turned off for correspondence games - all posts in that forum might have already been excluded from the post count before you manually culled them from your figures. Presumably this may mean the ppd rate is even better than 17.3?

Even if member post counts are turned off in a forum they still get added to the total post count on the forum front page.

**Just2Good** · 12-30-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

Even if member post counts are turned off in a forum they still get added to the total post count on the forum front page.

Okay, thanks for that Bill.

I am just glad the forum seems to be moving in the right direction overall, and would expect that if the numbers continue going in the direction they are currently travelling, OzChess could eclipse ********'s forum as the leading Australian Chess Forum eventually.

Did I mention we are planning to advertise in the Sydney Morning Herald?

**MichaelBaron** · 01-10-2008, 01:52 PM

As far as the forum growth is concerned:

1) the key is to get as many contributors/readers as possible. This is why it would be nice to reach an agreement with ChessChat ...on mutual promotion activities.
2) good to have competitions (e.g. i really like the idea about free entry to Aus Day weekender..but i guess its going to work for Vic-Based members only..may be some australia wide comp. emm)
3) The more money the Forum owners/moderators earn..the more time they got to devote to the forum. Lets have Google-Supported advertising throughout the site
4) May be have some blogs etc..(similarly to GM Baggeri's site) along with the forum

Okie thats all for now

**Chessic-Adventures** · 01-10-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelBaron

As far as the forum growth is concerned:

1) the key is to get as many contributors/readers as possible. This is why it would be nice to reach an agreement with ChessChat ...on mutual promotion activities.
2) good to have competitions (e.g. i really like the idea about free entry to Aus Day weekender..but i guess its going to work for Vic-Based members only..may be some australia wide comp. emm)
3) The more money the Forum owners/moderators earn..the more time they got to devote to the forum. Lets have Google-Supported advertising throughout the site
4) May be have some blogs etc..(similarly to GM Baggeri's site) along with the forum

Okie thats all for now

All of these are good ideas but I don't want to see this place covered in annoying advertisements. So maybe not the 3rd point.

**Garrett** · 01-11-2008, 08:08 AM

Advertising on site is not as bad as you think.

When you go back to the site time and time again you tend to just ignore them, not even notice it sometimes. If the advertising is extremely blatant (pop-ups in front on content, etc etc) then they tend to lose customers. Not going to discuss this too much, whole textbooks have been written on the subjects (and read by some poor souls).

You get used to it.

Fitness First (the gym) was a bit like that. Advertising everywhere, pamphletes on the runners, adverts on the screens, announcements coming over the loudspeakers, pretty girls calling you when your membership is about to expire.

Annoying at first but you managed to tune it out after a while. It's just capitalism.

**Euro-Chess** · 01-11-2008, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures

All of these are good ideas but I don't want to see this place covered in annoying advertisements. So maybe not the 3rd point.

I don't really want the forum to get bigger because it would disrupt the chemistry of the current posters, and I think the small size of this forum is also one of its plusses.

**Fischer-Fan** · 01-11-2008, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelBaron

Pity..but orh well such is life i guess.

i think the foolish part about it is that there is absolutely no money at stake by either forum being recalcitrant and taking the i am better than you attitude, and it would probably be good for the game of chess overall within Australia as well if they work together instead of attacking each other. unfortunately somewhere along the line it seems to have turned into a pissing contest instead of a positive step to improve dialogue and build consensus. i don't know who is to blame, probably everyone is to some extent, but 100% certainty that everyone loses when this type of rivalry happens.

**MOZ** · 01-11-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan

i think the foolish part about it is that there is absolutely no money at stake by either forum being recalcitrant and taking the i am better than you attitude, and it would probably be good for the game of chess overall within Australia as well if they work together instead of attacking each other. unfortunately somewhere along the line it seems to have turned into a pissing contest instead of a positive step to improve dialogue and build consensus. i don't know who is to blame, probably everyone is to some extent, but 100% certainty that everyone loses when this type of rivalry happens.

I think there is a distinct upside to the current options available.
Many of us feel that we would like some say in how the tone of the forum proceeds over time. The clear policy of chesschat.org was many moderator rules and frequent intervention of moderators in debate. Indeed, many of their posters support this approach. Some don't. With two forums we have the capability to cater for both preferences.
Anything useful on chesschat.org can be transferred seamlessly here for the 'locals' to debate, if they choose.

The consensus that you refer to interests me...what particular topics did you have in mind?

regards
MOZ*

**Fischer-Fan** · 01-12-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by MOZ

I

The consensus that you refer to interests me...what particular topics did you have in mind?

regards
MOZ*

perhaps consensus was the wrong word. my point was just that if both forums put down their hostilities and focused on areas and things they have in common, it would probably result in growth for both forums.

**Ninja** · 03-07-2008, 10:19 PM

Simplistic view..but anyhow....

48 users currently online here
88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86)
(Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85)

Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum??

**Ninja** · 03-07-2008, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ninja

Simplistic view..but anyhow....
Could be said that "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum??

Could also be said that gee they are touchy over there...took them almost 10 minutes to start raving about my "simplistic" comment

[07-03-2008 10:38 PM] Bill Gletsos: I see over on the toolbox someone is comparing numbers currently online here with over on the toolbox

**Just2Good** · 03-08-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ninja

Simplistic view..but anyhow....

48 users currently online here
88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86)
(Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85)

Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum??

Originally Posted by Ninja

Could also be said that gee they are touchy over there...took them almost 10 minutes to start raving about my "simplistic" comment

[07-03-2008 10:38 PM] Bill Gletsos: I see over on the toolbox someone is comparing numbers currently online here with over on the toolbox

Thanks for those observations Ninja.

I have said this once or twice before, and I think the occassion calls for it again. OzChess would be nothing without its members.

Contrary to the misguided views of 'the CC establishment', OzChess was created exclusively for the purpose of being a genuine chess resource for the entire Australian Chess Community. If that, in time, leads to OzChess becoming bigger than CC, well, so be it.

**Chessic-Adventures** · 03-08-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Thanks for those observations Ninja.

I have said this once or twice before, and I think the occassion calls for it again. OzChess would be nothing without its members.

Contrary to the misguided views of 'the CC establishment', OzChess was created exclusively for the purpose of being a genuine chess resource for the entire Australian Chess Community. If that, in time, leads to OzChess becoming bigger than CC, well, so be it.

Its good to discuss some chess related topics, but in terms of serious full on chess studying and improvement, there is no chess forum in the world that is going to be able to be helpful in that way. But I like some of the discussion here from time to time, and the people like vagrantnomad and Fischer-Fan.

**Ninja** · 12-02-2008, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ninja

Simplistic view..but anyhow....

48 users currently online here
88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86)
(Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85)

Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum??

Still simplistic, but anyhow....

97 users currently online here
109 users currently online at CC

Almost caught up

12-29-2007, 03:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	The Growth of OzChess Kevin Bonham, a member here at OzChess and moderator at the ******'s Forum, made this post in October of 2007, which I have slightly paraphrased: Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham ****'s Forum post rate since 1 January 2007 has averaged 114.74 posts per day. About 14 posts per day of this is correspondence game moves so the real average is more or less exactly 100. ACCF started on or slightly before 14 July 2006. By 18 July 2007 it had received approx. 3049 posts at a postrate of 8.26 posts per day. This wasn't rising by this stage but had well and truly stabilised, if not declined (I believe it was around 10-12 posts per day average in the early days of the forum). So ACCF had less than eight percent market share by postcount even before 18 July 2007. If the stat examined is active posters it is even lower than that. ACCF was never going to be a serious rival. On or around 18 July 2007 another forum known as OzChess was founded. This effectively killed ACCF within weeks, and since then ACCF has received only about 79 posts at a post-rate of less than one per day. Naturally OzChess is a bit better supported than ACCF, since it doesn't have a cumbersome membership approval process including a remarkably silly and selectively enforced boy-scout pledge, it is technically superior and its administrator seems to put more energy into running and promoting it. Apart from that it is basically the same demographic. OzChess is currently averaging 14.6 ppd (almost twice ACCF but still not nowhere near ****'s Forum). Kevin recently provided an update yesterday or the day before, and I thank Kevin for providing reliable numbers and trust he made efforts to ascertain what the correct numbers were. Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham** Post-rate for OzChess excluding correspondence games since its inception : 17.5 posts per day As we can see this is almost a 3 post increase per day over the past 2-3 months at least! The words 'since its inception' might even mean that there has been a higher post per day rate than 17.3 over the past 3 months! Go Team! Kevin then continues: (Slightly paraphrased again) Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham Post-rate since last update [on ******'s Forum] excluding correspondence games: 84.3 posts per day Top Posters by postcount** 1. Bill Gletsos 11331 [+725] 2. Kevin Bonham 10116 [+1277] 3. ggrayggray 8853 [+566] 4. Rincewind 7905 [+466] 5. ursogr8 5680 [unchanged] 6. antichrist 5674 [-1]* 7. Gunner Duggan 5312 [+1445] 8. arosar 4529 [+30] 9. PHAT 4253 [unchanged] 10. Alan Shore 3871 [unchanged] I find it interesting that the 3 unchanged posters now post almost exclusively here at OzChess (Iconoclast, Moz, and Gendo), and this seems to have led to a fall of about 16 to 17 posts a day at Karthicks site. Guess it goes to show that dedication and energy and new ideas and acting civily and courtesly towards one another is the way to grow a forum. Keep up the good work everyone AO ps- Kevin, I don't know how this may affect the numbers, but the post count has been turned off for correspondence games - all posts in that forum might have already been excluded from the post count before you manually culled them from your figures. Presumably this may mean the ppd rate is even better than 17.3? __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~ Last edited by Just2Good : 12-29-2007 at 04:14 PM Reason: Paraphrased KB Quotes included changing words ChessChat to Karthicks Forum, and writing out full term for ppd, inter alia.

12-29-2007, 09:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bill Gletsos Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One ps- Kevin, I don't know how this may affect the numbers, but the post count has been turned off for correspondence games - all posts in that forum might have already been excluded from the post count before you manually culled them from your figures. Presumably this may mean the ppd rate is even better than 17.3? Even if member post counts are turned off in a forum they still get added to the total post count on the forum front page.

12-30-2007, 12:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos Even if member post counts are turned off in a forum they still get added to the total post count on the forum front page. Okay, thanks for that Bill. I am just glad the forum seems to be moving in the right direction overall, and would expect that if the numbers continue going in the direction they are currently travelling, OzChess could eclipse *******'s forum as the leading Australian Chess Forum eventually. Did I mention we are planning to advertise in the Sydney Morning Herald? __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."* ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

01-10-2008, 01:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
MichaelBaron Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 136	Forum Growth & Improvements As far as the forum growth is concerned: 1) the key is to get as many contributors/readers as possible. This is why it would be nice to reach an agreement with ChessChat ...on mutual promotion activities. 2) good to have competitions (e.g. i really like the idea about free entry to Aus Day weekender..but i guess its going to work for Vic-Based members only..may be some australia wide comp. emm) 3) The more money the Forum owners/moderators earn..the more time they got to devote to the forum. Lets have Google-Supported advertising throughout the site 4) May be have some blogs etc..(similarly to GM Baggeri's site) along with the forum Okie thats all for now

01-10-2008, 03:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 221	Originally Posted by MichaelBaron As far as the forum growth is concerned: 1) the key is to get as many contributors/readers as possible. This is why it would be nice to reach an agreement with ChessChat ...on mutual promotion activities. 2) good to have competitions (e.g. i really like the idea about free entry to Aus Day weekender..but i guess its going to work for Vic-Based members only..may be some australia wide comp. emm) 3) The more money the Forum owners/moderators earn..the more time they got to devote to the forum. Lets have Google-Supported advertising throughout the site 4) May be have some blogs etc..(similarly to GM Baggeri's site) along with the forum Okie thats all for now All of these are good ideas but I don't want to see this place covered in annoying advertisements. So maybe not the 3rd point.

01-11-2008, 08:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Garrett Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 12	advertising on sites Advertising on site is not as bad as you think. When you go back to the site time and time again you tend to just ignore them, not even notice it sometimes. If the advertising is extremely blatant (pop-ups in front on content, etc etc) then they tend to lose customers. Not going to discuss this too much, whole textbooks have been written on the subjects (and read by some poor souls). You get used to it. Fitness First (the gym) was a bit like that. Advertising everywhere, pamphletes on the runners, adverts on the screens, announcements coming over the loudspeakers, pretty girls calling you when your membership is about to expire. Annoying at first but you managed to tune it out after a while. It's just capitalism. __________________ so long, and thanks for all the fish.

01-11-2008, 10:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
Euro-Chess Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 126	Originally Posted by Chessic-Adventures All of these are good ideas but I don't want to see this place covered in annoying advertisements. So maybe not the 3rd point. I don't really want the forum to get bigger because it would disrupt the chemistry of the current posters, and I think the small size of this forum is also one of its plusses. __________________ “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

01-11-2008, 05:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 152	Originally Posted by MichaelBaron Pity..but orh well such is life i guess. i think the foolish part about it is that there is absolutely no money at stake by either forum being recalcitrant and taking the i am better than you attitude, and it would probably be good for the game of chess overall within Australia as well if they work together instead of attacking each other. unfortunately somewhere along the line it seems to have turned into a pissing contest instead of a positive step to improve dialogue and build consensus. i don't know who is to blame, probably everyone is to some extent, but 100% certainty that everyone loses when this type of rivalry happens. __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer

01-11-2008, 06:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
MOZ Volunteer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ozchess is the marginalised cyber-spot where cc-Mods choose to engage with cc-banned posters. Posts: 3,541	Originally Posted by Fischer-Fan i think the foolish part about it is that there is absolutely no money at stake by either forum being recalcitrant and taking the i am better than you attitude, and it would probably be good for the game of chess overall within Australia as well if they work together instead of attacking each other. unfortunately somewhere along the line it seems to have turned into a pissing contest instead of a positive step to improve dialogue and build consensus. i don't know who is to blame, probably everyone is to some extent, but 100% certainty that everyone loses when this type of rivalry happens. I think there is a distinct upside to the current options available. Many of us feel that we would like some say in how the tone of the forum proceeds over time. The clear policy of chesschat.org was many moderator rules and frequent intervention of moderators in debate. Indeed, many of their posters support this approach. Some don't. With two forums we have the capability to cater for both preferences. Anything useful on chesschat.org can be transferred seamlessly here for the 'locals' to debate, if they choose. The consensus that you refer to interests me...what particular topics did you have in mind? regards MOZ* __________________ FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

01-12-2008, 11:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
Fischer-Fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 152	Originally Posted by MOZ I The consensus that you refer to interests me...what particular topics did you have in mind? regards MOZ* perhaps consensus was the wrong word. my point was just that if both forums put down their hostilities and focused on areas and things they have in common, it would probably result in growth for both forums. __________________ Patzer see check, patzer give check! - Bobby Fischer

03-07-2008, 10:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ninja Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 124	Simplistic view..but anyhow.... 48 users currently online here 88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86) (Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85) Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum?? Last edited by Ninja : 03-07-2008 at 11:55 PM Reason: Numbers dropping at CC

03-07-2008, 11:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ninja Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 124	Originally Posted by Ninja Simplistic view..but anyhow.... Could be said that "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum?? Could also be said that gee they are touchy over there...took them almost 10 minutes to start raving about my "simplistic" comment [07-03-2008 10:38 PM] Bill Gletsos: I see over on the toolbox someone is comparing numbers currently online here with over on the toolbox Last edited by Ninja : 03-07-2008 at 11:59 PM

03-08-2008, 02:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
Just2Good Tin Cup Champ 2004 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cairns Posts: 6,233 ICC Handle: Advantage FICS Handle: Advantage	OzChess Not in Competition! Originally Posted by Ninja Simplistic view..but anyhow.... 48 users currently online here 88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86) (Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85) Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum?? Originally Posted by Ninja Could also be said that gee they are touchy over there...took them almost 10 minutes to start raving about my "simplistic" comment [07-03-2008 10:38 PM] Bill Gletsos: I see over on the toolbox someone is comparing numbers currently online here with over on the toolbox Thanks for those observations Ninja. I have said this once or twice before, and I think the occassion calls for it again. OzChess would be nothing without its members. Contrary to the misguided views of 'the CC establishment', OzChess was created exclusively for the purpose of being a genuine chess resource for the entire Australian Chess Community. If that, in time, leads to OzChess becoming bigger than CC, well, so be it. __________________ . "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing." ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

03-08-2008, 03:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chessic-Adventures Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 221	Originally Posted by Arrogant-One Thanks for those observations Ninja. I have said this once or twice before, and I think the occassion calls for it again. OzChess would be nothing without its members. Contrary to the misguided views of 'the CC establishment', OzChess was created exclusively for the purpose of being a genuine chess resource for the entire Australian Chess Community. If that, in time, leads to OzChess becoming bigger than CC, well, so be it. Its good to discuss some chess related topics, but in terms of serious full on chess studying and improvement, there is no chess forum in the world that is going to be able to be helpful in that way. But I like some of the discussion here from time to time, and the people like vagrantnomad and Fischer-Fan.

12-02-2008, 11:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ninja Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 124	Originally Posted by Ninja Simplistic view..but anyhow.... 48 users currently online here 88 users currently online at CC (Edit 1 Sorry went back to check...don't want to be accused of getting the numbers wrong..Only 86) (Edit 2 (2 minutes later)sorry but I can't keep up...the number at CC is now 85) Could be said that the "ACF" (ie OzChess) is more than halfway to being the most used forum?? Still simplistic, but anyhow.... 97 users currently online here 109 users currently online at CC Almost caught up

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