The Growth of OzChess

[Just2Good]

Originally Posted by Ninja

Still simplistic, but anyhow....
97 users currently online here
109 users currently online at CC

Almost caught up

Cute post Ninja. There will be a nice surprise coming to OzChess hopefully this week, or early next.

[Jaydon]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Cute post Ninja. There will be a nice surprise coming to OzChess hopefully this week, or early next.

Well if you look now you'll find that currently online there is 107 here and 108 at the swamp! So close now!! lol

[Just2Good]

Originally Posted by PPWPFL

Well if you look now you'll find that currently online there is 107 here and 108 at the swamp! So close now!! lol

How did Axiom go from under 1000 shouts only a couple days ago to close to 1150 today? I tell you, that Ax has talent!

[Jaydon]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

How did Axiom go from under 1000 shouts only a couple days ago to close to 1150 today? I tell you, that Ax has talent!

He has the ability to fire like 20 shouts at a time without you even realising. He really does have talent! You better watch out AO because he's catching up to you fast!!

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by PPWPFL

Well if you look now you'll find that currently online there is 107 here and 108 at the swamp! So close now!! lol

What's Going On?
Currently Active Users: 104 (over there)
Currently Active Users: 111 (on here now)
The world must be ending.
Better hide under your beds, the sky will start falling soon

Sorry need to edit again, numbers still falling...
Currently Active Users: 101 (over there)
Currently Active Users: 110 (on here now)

[Jaydon]

Originally Posted by Ninja

What's Going On?
Currently Active Users: 104 (over there)
Currently Active Users: 111 (on here now)
The world must be ending.
Better hide under your beds, the sky will start falling soon

Sorry need to edit again, numbers still falling...
Currently Active Users: 101 (over there)
Currently Active Users: 110 (on here now)

Now you mention the sky does seem to be alot closer to teh ground then it was yesterday!! :0
Oh nooo!!!!!!

[Just2Good]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

OzChess Statistics

First Quarter (Jan-March 2008)	Posts in Month	Post Per Day Rate
January	756	24.38
February	725	25.00
March	531	17.12
Total For Quarter	2012	22.10

Second Quarter (Apr -June 08)	Posts in Month	Post Per Day Rate
April	473	15.76
May	308	9.94
June	296	9.87
Total For Quarter	1077	11.83

Third Quarter (July to Sept 08)	Posts in Month	Post Per Day Rate
July	900	29.03
August	1078	34.77
September	729	24.30
Total For Quarter	2707	29.43

I had a bit of time today so I crunched some numbers. Since 4 September 2008 CC has averaged a whopping 139.3 posts per day (not including the correspondence game forum posts). In comparison, since the same date OzChess has averaged 18.9 posts per day, so about the same 15% as usual. In terms of correspondence posts, however, we are roughly equal.

But what I cannot quite fathom, however, is this.

OzChess is technically superior to CC in every way. Our pgn chess viewer is better, our features are better and we have more of them, and our shoutbox is far superior. In addition to this - all the features that are premium membership features on CC, costing $25 there, are free to members here.

And yet there is simply no denying that CC has more consistent traffic and posters than OzChess (although the guest numbers are more comparable and sometimes dead even or ahead of CC by a bit).

The reasons for this, I presume (and may be wrong), is largely due to customer loyalty. CC has been around a heck of a lot longer than any other chess forum in Australia, and probably internationally as well. It seems to have the critcal mass to attract new members at the same or a higher rate than it loses them.

Apparently, the supposition that if CC had a high tech competitor to contend with, it would lose much of its membership base is simply incorrect. I guess brand loyalty is a more formidable factor than I thought.

In any event, I would hereby like ask the chess playing community what else they would like to see on OzChess - keeping in mind that I will be reluctant to spend anymore more money to make further improvements, at least until I see significant traffic improvement here.

At present I feel that I have done everything I could to provide the Australian chess playing community with an alternative forum to escape the moderation abuses of CC, and simply to discuss chess in a non-ACF dominated environment. I believe that OzChess is a superior forum to CC in many ways (including better content (ie. the Australian Masters 2008), but that obviously has not been enough to build the traffic to make this forum seem viable or worthwhile.

So your thoughts and comments are welcome as I ponder the future of this forum, and the possibility of passing the torch to someone else or indeed - even closing the place down and selling off the assets individually.

Perhaps Axiom's dream of a single united Australian Chess Forum is closer to reality than previously believed.

Best Regards,

AO

[MOZ]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

<..>

But what I cannot quite fathom, however, is this.

OzChess is technically superior to CC in every way. Our pgn chess viewer is better, our features are better and we have more of them, and our shoutbox is far superior. In addition to this - all the features that are premium membership features on CC, costing $25 there, are free to members here.

This marketing factor is only likely to come into play if the typical chessplayer is aware of two chat-boards.
As an example, a member of the recent Australian masters complained to me late in the tournament that he could not see the early games of his next opponents. I pointed out that they were posted on Ozchess and that the eventual winner was using the pgn viewer as part of his preparation. I then asked each individually if they were aware of Ozchess. 4/10 knew of its existence. In the wider population around our Club, I think the % is likely to be less that 25%. In Melbourne around all Clubs, I would be surprised if the figure was greater than 10%.

<..>

The reasons for this, I presume (and may be wrong), is largely due to customer loyalty.

As I wrote above, lack of awareness is a more likely explanation. However, loyalty played a role when there were concerns about the ethics of competing on domain names etc; when Frosty, Baz and others voted with their sign-offs..

CC has been around a heck of a lot longer than any other chess forum in Australia, and probably internationally as well. It seems to have the critcal mass to attract new members at the same or a higher rate than it loses them.

Agree.

Apparently, the supposition that if CC had a high tech competitor to contend with, it would lose much of its membership base is simply incorrect.

Awareness is much more a factor


<..>

In any event, I would hereby like ask the chess playing community what else they would like to see on OzChess - keeping in mind that I will be reluctant to spend anymore more money to make further improvements, at least until I see significant traffic improvement here.

At present I feel that I have done everything I could to provide the Australian chess playing community with an alternative forum to escape the moderation abuses of CC, and simply to discuss chess in a non-ACF dominated environment. I believe that OzChess is a superior forum to CC in many ways (including better content (ie. the Australian Masters 2008), but that obviously has not been enough to build the traffic to make this forum seem viable or worthwhile.

So your thoughts and comments are welcome as I ponder the future of this forum, and the possibility of passing the torch to someone else or indeed - even closing the place down and selling off the assets individually.

Perhaps Axiom's dream of a single united Australian Chess Forum is closer to reality than previously believed.

Best Regards,

AO

Any more from me and it is likley to be judged arbitraily by the mods at chesschat that I am assisting you and they impose yet another unjustifiable ban. The previous ban was lifted and not a single relevant concession made by me. But when I point this out they take exception to it. Note, it is impossible to post ************ site here. So that is not a relevant concession.

[Just2Good]

Originally Posted by MOZ

This marketing factor is only likely to come into play if the typical chessplayer is aware of two chat-boards.
As an example, a member of the recent Australian masters complained to me late in the tournament that he could not see the early games of his next opponents. I pointed out that they were posted on Ozchess and that the eventual winner was using the pgn viewer as part of his preparation. I then asked each individually if they were aware of Ozchess. 4/10 knew of its existence. In the wider population around our Club, I think the % is likely to be less that 25%. In Melbourne around all Clubs, I would be surprised if the figure was greater than 10%.

Awareness is something I hadn't thought about, just assumed pretty much everyone was already aware of OzChess. This could perhaps provide the genesis of a new direction and strategy.

In other news I see Kevin Bonham is having a go at me on CC. He seems to have forgotten that the most he will ever amount to is being a moderator on someone else's forum. Bravo Kevin - you done good!

Best Regards,

AO

ps - Get a faster computer and you will find our chess viewer loads faster!

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Awareness is something I hadn't thought about, just assumed pretty much everyone was already aware of OzChess. This could perhaps provide the genesis of a new direction and strategy.
ps - Get a faster computer and you will find our chess viewer loads faster!

I would have to agree that awareness is the main issue however if I was to list my main two dislikes about OzChess I would have to list the speed of the site which I find actually stops me from bothering to quickly drop in when I have a spare minute or two (it takes ages to redraw the screen compared to CC) and my second gripe would be that threads regarding CC, such as "bullying" and who is banned and why, get far too much "airtime" and for someone who really is just looking for up to date info on chess tournaments etc you tend to drop in, look at the latest posts and thet get on with life. When all the latest posts are just dribble about the goings on of another board you start to wonder why you are bothering. NB. Not saying this board is worse than CC, just saying that the type of drivell that sends people looking for alternatives seems to also be prominent here.

The end result in my case (and most others I know) is to reduce time spent on either. The exception of course is when we weaken and decide to place a post such as this.... or when annoying clubs such as MCC are too hopeless to have a decent functioning website and leave no choice but to search BB's in the hope of finding any info on upcoming events.

BTW My speed issue is purely a comparison to CC and other boards I use.
I can go between an old P4 and my new Quad core and it makes no difference to the speed that OzChess loads so I would guess it is simply the hosting provider. You get what you pay for but maybe it is worth shopping around..

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Ninja

BTW My speed issue is purely a comparison to CC and other boards I use.
I can go between an old P4 and my new Quad core and it makes no difference to the speed that OzChess loads so I would guess it is simply the hosting provider. You get what you pay for but maybe it is worth shopping around..

Just for interest the trace results below are pretty constant from home and work (which both use the Optus backbone). There is a massive slowdown while it seems to run around the states in circles ???

Tracing route to chesschat.org [122.201.76.5]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms
2 13 ms 9 ms 9 ms
3 18 ms 8 ms 10 ms meb4-ge1-1.gw.optusnet.com.au
4 9 ms 10 ms 9 ms sun2-ge12-0-0-821.gw.optusnet.com.au
5 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms sun5-unk8-1.gw.optusnet.com.au [198.142.160.230]
6 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms 61.88.144.117
7 23 ms 23 ms 28 ms 61.88.221.45
8 24 ms 23 ms 26 ms harbourmsp1.52gdc76f02.optus.net.au [59.154.21.6]
9 23 ms 26 ms 24 ms 118.127.64.14
10 25 ms 23 ms 26 ms 122.201.74.111
11 25 ms 23 ms 28 ms megan.************.com.au [122.201.76.5]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.ozchess.com.au [69.16.225.247]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms
2 12 ms 9 ms 7 ms
3 8 ms * 8 ms meb4-ge1-1.gw.optusnet.com.au
4 24 ms 23 ms 28 ms mas3-ge11-0-0-821.gw.optusnet.com.au
5 182 ms 172 ms 171 ms 203.208.190.149
6 173 ms 179 ms 170 ms xe-9-2-0.edge3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.78.195.201]
7 181 ms 180 ms 180 ms vlan99.csw4.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.20.254]
8 219 ms 184 ms 179 ms ae-93-93.ebr3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.137.45]
9 197 ms 180 ms 198 ms ae-2.ebr3.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.69.132.9]
10 186 ms 181 ms 181 ms ae-83-83.csw3.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.69.134.234]
11 189 ms 182 ms 200 ms ae-82-82.ebr2.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.69.134.217]
12 215 ms 216 ms 216 ms ae-3.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.58]
13 217 ms 216 ms 204 ms ae-1-100.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.38]
14 228 ms 229 ms 228 ms ae-3.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.132.62]
15 231 ms 233 ms 233 ms ae-6.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.140.189]
16 232 ms 245 ms 231 ms ae-11-51.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.2]
17 238 ms 240 ms 236 ms WBCONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.14]
18 238 ms 238 ms 241 ms lw-core4-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.38]
19 238 ms 237 ms 237 ms lw-core1-ge5.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.93]
20 238 ms 238 ms 239 ms lw-dc1-dist5-ge1.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.62]
21 237 ms 238 ms 237 ms vz108.liquidweb.com [69.16.216.88]
22 241 ms 238 ms 238 ms host.vbskinworks.com [69.16.225.247]

Trace complete.

[MOZ]

^
Is your youngster planning on the Swiss starting on 27 December?
If yes, we could experiment from the Club which has Bigpond as the ISP.

In my case the chesschat load is faster for all services for Ozchess relative to chesschat. In particular the chesschat shoutbox loads so slowly I often bail.
The only exceptions are those (Ozchess) threads where composite game collections are posted with the viewer. There is a major difficulty sometimes with these posts. I refer to fg7's posting of Dresden games and Mowcop's posting of Masters games. (Sometimes these threads are fine and sometimes www).

regards
MOZ*

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by MOZ

^
Is your youngster planning on the Swiss starting on 27 December?
If yes, we could experiment from the Club which has Bigpond as the ISP.
regards
MOZ*

Youngster will not be at the swiss. He seems to have a few too many interests this year and has not played in as many tournaments as previously. He has told me that as he will have 14 days of chess in Jan he intends to spend the days between Xmas and New Year enjoying his holidays and playing with his Xmas presents.

Interesting that your speeds are so different. I will try out a couple of other ISP's while we are away in Jan.
Regards..

[Just2Good]

Originally Posted by Ninja

I would have to agree that awareness is the main issue...

Firstly, Ninja, let me say thank you. A big thank you actually. This is precisely the kind of feedback I think results in discussion that needs to take place. There are few downsides to honest straight talk. My job is to listen and take it on board, to then make changes that improve results.

... however if I was to list my main two dislikes about OzChess I would have to list the speed of the site which I find actually stops me from bothering to quickly drop in when I have a spare minute or two (it takes ages to redraw the screen compared to CC)

Good point. I recently read an article on another VBulletin forum for Admins (mostly forum owners) about changes that can be made to improve the speed of one's forum. I made several of these changes and did notice a small improvement. If I kill the calendar, which no one seems to use very often anyway, it should further improve the site speed results.

As for hosting I actually pay a fair bit for it (over $100 US per annum), so not the best deal by a long shot, but it is with Liquid Web, a US based hosting company that's allegedly pretty good.

But there is no denying that Chess Chat is faster. I even discussed this issue with Karth-ick when I spoke to him recently, and he invited me to change providers and use Net Log-istics as our host in the future, and he stated that Chess Chat possesses the speed it does because of its being hosted by Net Log-istics. I will now see if I can wriggle out of the arrangements I have with Liquid Web and move over to Net Logis-tics, but if I cannot then this will likely happen in July 09.

... and my second gripe would be that threads regarding CC, such as "bullying" and who is banned and why, get far too much "airtime" and for someone who really is just looking for up to date info on chess tournaments etc you tend to drop in, look at the latest posts and thet get on with life. When all the latest posts are just dribble about the goings on of another board you start to wonder why you are bothering. NB. Not saying this board is worse than CC, just saying that the type of drivell that sends people looking for alternatives seems to also be prominent here.

Too right mate!

When I first launched OzChess, and posts started shooting up about CC, I thought to myself 'Oh boy, this crap is now going to be haunting us here'. Unfortunately, its just so easy to get sucked into these pointless battles with the other site. Indeed, my biggest regret as OzChess' owner was getting sucked in to the point of registering a similiar domain name to CC. Eventually I sobered up and when the ACF challenged the domain, I was given the choice of transferring it to another party or just relinquishing it. I chose the latter because I realized what I had done probably crossed the line a bit.

But the point is once you get sucked into the pointless forum battles, good judgment seems to be the first casuality. And the second casuality is toxifying the atmosphere for everyone, including members who are indifferent to the whole forum battling rubbish.

Therefore, while I am not going to moderate other peoples views if they wish to discuss CC issues, from now on I will try hard not to comment on the other site at all!

The end result in my case (and most others I know) is to reduce time spent on either. The exception of course is when we weaken and decide to place a post such as this.... or when annoying clubs such as MCC are too hopeless to have a decent functioning website and leave no choice but to search BB's in the hope of finding any info on upcoming events.

So it seems there is a knowledge vacuum here, which OzChess may be able to fill whilst at the same time enhancing chess in Australia.

Originally Posted by Ninja

Just for interest the trace results below are pretty constant from home and work (which both use the Optus backbone). There is a massive slowdown while it seems to run around the states in circles ???

I will be using the trace results info you provided when I contact Liquid Web. Thank you very much for this info and your feedback Ninja. It is much appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

[MOZ]

Originally Posted by Arrogant-One

Firstly, Ninja, let me say thank you. A big thank you actually. This is precisely the kind of feedback I think results in discussion that needs to take place. There are few downsides to honest straight talk. My job is to listen and take it on board, to then make changes that improve results.



[font="Georgia"]Good point. I recently read an article on another VBulletin forum for Admins (mostly forum owners) about changes that can be made to improve the speed of one's forum. I made several of these changes and did notice a small improvement. If I kill the calendar, which no one seems to use very often anyway, it should further improve the site speed results.

As for hosting I actually pay a fair bit for it (over $100 US per annum), so not the best deal by a long shot, but it is with Liquid Web, a US based hosting company that's allegedly pretty good.

But there is no denying that Chess Chat is faster. I even discussed this issue with Karth-ick when I spoke to him recently, and he invited me to change providers and use Net Log-istics as our host in the future, and he stated that Chess Chat possesses the speed it does because of its being hosted by Net Log-istics. I will now see if I can wriggle out of the arrangements I have with Liquid Web and move over to Net Logis-tics, but if I cannot then this will likely happen in July 09.[/FONT]



Too right mate!

When I first launched OzChess, and posts started shooting up about CC, I thought to myself 'Oh boy, this crap is now going to be haunting us here'. Unfortunately, its just so easy to get sucked into these pointless battles with the other site. Indeed, my biggest regret as OzChess' owner was getting sucked in to the point of registering a similiar domain name to CC. Eventually I sobered up and when the ACF challenged the domain, I was given the choice of transferring it to another party or just relinquishing it. I chose the latter because I realized what I had done probably crossed the line a bit.

But the point is once you get sucked into the pointless forum battles, good judgment seems to be the first casuality. And the second casuality is toxifying the atmosphere for everyone, including members who are indifferent to the whole forum battling rubbish.

Therefore, while I am not going to moderate other peoples views if they wish to discuss CC issues, from now on I will try hard not to comment on the other site at all!



So it seems there is a knowledge vacuum here, which OzChess may be able to fill whilst at the same time enhancing chess in Australia.




I will be using the trace results info you provided when I contact Liquid Web. Thank you very much for this info and your feedback Ninja. It is much appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

Calendar....I just started using it for
VIC Lightning
CV AGM
and CSS


cc is Not faster for me....and while Ninja is an impeccable observer his architecture (or ISP) may be the reason for the speed diff.
Walk slowly on this one.


I notice even the Carrier Pigeon has recently turned his nose up at the offerings on the other site.
No deliveries from CP for a while.

regards
MOZ*